intralizee

Jansenism emphasized on predestination and is unique in being contrary to all the religions using free will for an alternative expression. Thought it might be worth mentioning because someone might find it interesting.

No, it makes more sense to fix the broken system that resulted in the faulty machinery and to fix the faulty person as well. If one cannot fix the person, it doesn't make sense to scrap them if we put humanity at the highest regard with understanding free will is an illusion. We would just have to prevent the person from being able to do the wrong and understand punishment is against humanity in the equation with handling the person.

The main counter is you're not choosing when everything is based on the proceeding event with the variables assigned at birth. Nothing is chance when understanding the universe is mechanical in a sense like a clock. Hard work is just a psychological pattern adapted from how you were conditioned with the mindset you developed by fate.

You were fated to fall into that belief by all the preceding events and variables assigned to you at birth. Full awareness in a sense makes you the perfect you. Yet, you became who you are by destiny. Evil does not exist in the sense of understanding everything is metaphorically mechanical. You have to blame the complete system when you view something as evil and which nobody every seems to do.

The question of will power glosses over the cause/event resulting in the desire to cut off your own hand. Will power is merely a representation of all the preceding events with starting variables at birth, factoring into if the person will do the action of cutting off their own right hand.

You're assuming the impossible but what has conditioned into everyone at birth by social norms and which have not always been correct. The free will belief and I say it's wrong by understanding determinism. Every event is of a linear path with all the preceding events & variables from assigned at birth factoring into the proceeding event. People are dragged along a line of fate till death.

Human events being unfavorable and resulting in sociopathy are as similar to how some linear process will trigger psychopathy. You can make the comparison as well to how an unfortunate person becomes ill of any illness.

I think the people who believe in free will can understand the notion of free will doesn't exist. They just have a problem with their ego and will not let go of the satisfaction the idea brings to them.

Free will is an illusion and thus choices don't exist.

I haven't lost "accountability" for myself, in a sense "it" has morphed into awareness of certainty of how every little thing alters the assigned story of everyone. It has made me a lot more forgiving to others & myself, with less anxiety and better mental health. I believe it has brought me clearer analysis of my thinking patterns.

Basically, I think I'm closer to my perfect self because I understand better to why my actions are taken and how I'm controlled by what is around me on the highest level obtainable. Similar to how a god would perceive anything if one existed and is truly omniscient.

I'm leaning towards the idea, "people are better humans when understanding free will doesn't exist" and how there is "no control" over anything. I think a lot of people who haven't lived with my mindset for an extended period of time, dismiss the health benefits by assuming it's bad because you will feel like you need to be at fault or in control for joy to exist or meaning. I don't believe for a second that is the case.

I'm still able to have happy moments. I would say I'm more grateful and acknowledging of them when they happen. I likely would be dead by suicide if I didn't think the way I do now but I still contemplate suicide with likelihood because gender dysphoria sucks when born in the time period I was without getting help. So I don't think understanding there is no free brings suicide and really whatever happens was fate when understanding determinism. I do 100% believe life is not meaningless from me understanding determinism and truly everyone fills a purpose in progressing society or even retracting progress. Freedom isn't necessary and will never exist.

The problem is not going to be solved by elder education. The mind decays to a state where education doesn't matter in the long run. Manipulation tactics with consistency will win when dealing with an elder person who is not the same person everyday because simple things have become a chore. Basically the responsibility should never be on a person above 60. People need to demand responsibility in full by banks & phone carriers. The young generation don't necessarily have a moral duty in this because the current generation is getting shit on by the previous. If anything I doubt anyone cares unless they have greed for inheritance or love their "own" family members.

I’m confused why you would think id. Everyone is ruled by circumstance “every moment” and even when the person enjoys every bit of it. A puppet that loves who controls his strings is still without free will. I’m a transgender woman for example and had an unfavorable life, almost everyday by how persons treat me by aesthetics and from my understanding of your writing “I would only be considered having free will” if achieving the impossible against reality. Except even in that case I wasn’t free for desiring the outcome, having it happen and even enjoying it. Accountability never is correct unless directed towards the complete system as a whole. Everyone is forced every moment till death.

Ego creates accountability on both sides of the equation (ex. victim & assailant) when it comes to something undesired in society.

Ego is constructed by the person viewing what encompasses reality and comparing the self to form self-esteem or self-importance.

As a person who understands determinism, I feel my ego has diminished when it comes to individuals. I realize me comparing others who are "unfortunate or fortunate" to myself is nonsense and accountability for individuality is diminished to null. My accountability for society as a whole is instead greatly increased and where I view the complete system of what makes an individual who they are being at fault for any undesired outcome.

Basically if someone were to do a horrible act it is by fate, how they were raised in the family they were born, with genetics and all the events that happened in the specific linear order of no real control because free will does not exist. I would see everything at fault "the will of the universe" and where the best humanity can do is study what made the outcome; with working on fixing the problem and rehabilitation for the person.

I would think that is still either 1) or 2). It all comes down to the ego with accountability.

No your last part it was directed towards.

You don’t have a good grasp on philosophy to suggest the meaning of free will and complatiblism. Yes the justic system is a disgrace to humanity and I understand determinism. Prove otherwise please from what I wrote and I’ll be thankful. Instead it looks like someone with a hurt ego writing nonsense to me.

No that is absurd and dehumanizing towards the victims.

Why not just make ads show on SFW content and have some sort agreement with advertisers. It's not like google has to block everything or maybe they have privilege.

You should figure out how much to put away for whenever a time comes where you need financial freedom it's upon grasp. Money for health emergencies, food, taxes and loved ones.

There is no freedom with understanding determinism. I'm just a vessel forcibly navigated from start to finish in life. All the external forces make me who I am. I'm not free of the order assigned to me and the linear outcomes is scrutinized when it comes to others who had a less favorable order or different producing variables with undesired results.

My style of reasoning is how it came to be by all the events I've lived in life. A lot of unfavorable events, unfortunate circumstances and with its happy moments. I could try to do mental gymnastics to produce something more desirable for "you" but I prefer to simplify my observation into what I wrote. I don't really see any substance other than from your ego in your reply.

I’m a person who acknowledges everything is deterministic and free will is a facade. The two types of people I’ve encountered who desire the notion of free will: 1) Person with ego who needs to have a belief in free will. 2) Persons who has ego, gets annoyed by free will being a facade and refuses to think about it because “it doesn’t matter” to this person.

I’m perplexed if the problem is singular between the two types of persons and if it’s either: ego, desire, greed, selfishness, or these people really need a belief similar to persons of religious ideology to continue functioning as who they are subconsciously. To me it’s fascinating to observe because I genuinely propose the world would be better when the majority lives by reason in reality; when it comes to law, health, the environment, finances, and social problems. The psychological impact would be the most exciting thing for me personally to witness as I cannot imagine any negatives of a majority understanding determinism compared to the madnesses today in society; where the majority “who blame everyone” or compare themselves to others unfortunate as the outcome wasn’t determined before birth.

Parent-child bonding is the outcome of the hereditary lottery as well.

I'm not even necessarily convinced the "non-fake" news is even good for people. The presentation of how content is all together like google news is possibly harmful to the human psych. As it's questionable how healthy it may be for people to digest content of every different emotion together, all in one sitting and it may even result in dehumanization subconsciously. I prefer to read my news from sources targeting my specific areas of interest and not see something negative when I'm subconsciously trying to be positive. I've also noticed how it's easy to nurture a defeatist mentality with negative news, the comments and just stumbling upon it without any intentions. News just feels like advertising, marketing and with some agenda at this point in my life. I think it should be irrational to assume the responsibility is on normal everyday people to be aware of all this. Fake news just seems like everyday "news" that is serving an agenda and is no different when it comes to negativity brought into society.

That's supporting the system and even hypocritical for you if you disagree with the system existing.

No, I never once implied chaos systems are not already unraveled into a deterministic one.

Me writing, "it describes a system that is too complicated at the current moment in time to unravel into a deterministic system" uses the word "unravel" as how humans are incapable of understanding all the cause & effects in the current moment of time; when they define it as chaos but may eventually be able to understand all the cause & effects.

I have no understanding to why you wrote your last paragraph in the original comment to me and how the comments transpired from then to now; other than you have a fragile ego to how I prefer to use my expression of the word chaos.

I agree with all that and I'm still confused to why the original commenter suggests my interpretation is incorrect to how I phrased chaos.

My philosophy is everything is deterministic and how I wrote the above illustrates that with my expression of the word chaos. I don't understand your point?

I find your last paragraph an attempt at dismissing what I wrote? The interpretation I gave is based on how physicists interpret chaos.

Chaos is just a word, created by humans to provide a human expression to another and for me it describes a system that is too complicated at the current moment in time to unravel into a deterministic system.

I enjoy the multiverse theory because of how it makes infinity more imaginable for me and how time does not need to align between universes to recreate the current moment in one universe. The current moment in this universe can even theoretically happen again in the exact same universe when understanding infinity with all the variables aligning again.

Fatalism is how I view reality. If there is a deity, that being is deterministic as well and could effect our lives but still would make it fatalism for us. Although, I fundamentally think Spinoza is correct on the logic & philosophy of god and thus I think there is no deity(s).