janober

One important factor is how fast that 6 upvotes happened and from who. If it got posted and got 6 upvotes within a few minutes and that from "proper" accounts it is on the front page. If it has the same amount but it takes 30 min then not. At least from my personal experience.

n8n.io - https://n8n.io | Berlin | Onsite

n8n is an open and extendable workflow tool, enabling you to create powerful automations. With a fair-code distribution model, run n8n locally or in the cloud and augment with custom functions, logic and apps. n8n's node-based approach makes it highly versatile, enabling you to map anything to everything. https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n

Open positions: Full Stack Developer - Mid level/Senior, Technical writer intern

https://jobs.n8n.io/

I use https://n8n.io (full disclosure, I am the creator) for it. It is free and fair-code licensed. I did not write it esp. for this use case but have to say works very great.

Good point. AGPL goes definitely in the direction. It is not just open-source it definitely also has parts of the fair-code spirit...

That is actually what we started fair-code (https://faircode.io) for to have a proper term and definition for that projects.

haha, no would have done that even without that. It was always important to me to make that clear even though it did obviously not work exactly like intended.

Yes, I did but did not get to it yet. Also not sure if this integrations would then be the "best" to use. I think it would be great to have at least "something" if nothing exists yet but would not be as good and easy as regular integrations and so would not fit perfectly into n8n as I really want to have it as easy as possible for users.

Very sorry! As I was the only "CEO" in here which product got criticized I thought it must have been me ;-)

Yes would actually be perfect for it, but never had the time to set something like that up. Maybe someday in the future. For now, I only have a simple Google Alert set and regularly check HN and Google Analytics which is a good indicator when it got mentioned somewhere.

Yes, very interesting indeed! Either there is a big conspiracy to uncover or said CEO reads HN and if something is number 1 and is related to his product he pays close attention. We will maybe never find out the truth...

n8n does also have way fewer integrations.

About the "robust" part. A startup I know had a lot of issues with Zapier and switched to n8n and are quite happy as they did not have any issues since. I am sure you are right and you did your research but would love to hear what exactly you are referring to as it will help me to improve n8n. The same with the limitations. Anything specific?

Do not have that much experience with Huginn but you are probably right. As n8n is new and Huginn is already around for many years it would be surprising if they would be equal in every way. Anyway, I am quite sure that most that can be done with Huginn can with a limited amount of work also be done in n8n as creating new nodes is very simple. (I am the creator of n8n)

Thanks a lot rvz for throwing it in the mix. I am the creator of n8n so just wanted to mention that it is not "OSI approved open-source" as the commons clause got attached. More information about that in the FAQ https://docs.n8n.io/#/faq?id=license

Yes is an option but one I would hate to take. It would mean that I have to artificially cripple the product for all users just to eventually earn money from a few. That was the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted that everybody can use it for free which gives the product the chance to get used by very many people and so become amazing for all users over time. So ended up with the Commons Clause as it aligned the most with my vision.

Thanks a lot! It would be amazing if you would create those integrations but can understand if you have different priorities. In this case, simply add the integrations you need as a request to the forum. Other people can then upvote them and I know what to work on next. For example, already created a request for a Shopify integration myself a month ago which you could simply upvote: https://community.n8n.io/t/shopify-integration/22

Hard to answer that in a general sense. It depends a lot on how you use AWS Lambda. In most cases, I would say no. But possible for a few.

Thanks a lot. That is great to hear!

If you are unsure about if you can use it, simply explain what you want to do in an email to "license@n8n.io".

The goal with the license was not keeping people from using it. The main goal was to start it in a way to make the project long term sustainable which I thought would be in the interest of all people using it.

Also does not mean that people can never use it in a way which the license prohibits by default. It simply means that away has to be found which is beneficial to all sides. So just like anywhere in life.

Sorry english it not my native language. Thought that is kind of an OK short version of "asking for more of contributors than you give back to them". Did not want to weasel your words (hope I did at least use that correctly)!

I tried (apparently not successfuly) to write everywhere very clearly that the Commons Clause got applied and if somebody contributes to it he would normally have spend some time with the project and he should be aware of the license situation. Would never have expected that somebody would find out later that it is not the case and he would then be upset about it. But thanks, not sure that it would happen but still one more thing for me to consider (as you are right that it could happen).

Thanks a lot! Yes agree but the fact that they care very much and the other group way less is a sign that I should change it if I can resolve the situation like that. Why not make them "happy" If I have the chance?

The only reason I am hesitating is that I fear to confuse more people than I help. If people (including myself) would know what (actually had to look up the term again) "source-available" means I would have used it from the start. But nobody does. So the question is, is it worth confusing a big group of none-vocal-people to make a small group of vocal-people happy? But I can understand definitely understand their point. So have to decide on that the next days.

I thought about that. But did not decide yet as I first have to inform myself and think properly about what implications that could have. For example, could it mean a split of the community like what happened for Elasticsearch which is never good for any project.

Sorry still do not understand. So you are saying that I screw over a person which uses n8n (else he would probably not contribute anyway), for whom I assume n8n is in some way helpful (so makes his life easier, saves him time, the company makes more money, ...), who can use all the code I wrote for free? And just because he contributed some code and I do not allow other people (which is in 99.999%, not the contributor) to make money directly with n8n?

> It's even worse to see projects like this misleading contributors into giving to a project which isn't even open source in the first place and asks for more than it gives.

Sorry, can you elaborate? I invested probably around 1 year in writing n8n and I allow now everybody to use it for free (with the limitations discussed). I assume that over 90% of the people use it and I do not receive a single Pull-Request or Dollar (which is fine and I am totally OK with) and of the other 9% I guess they spend between a few hours to maybe a week in total in contributions (again also fine). Then there is probably less than 1% which does more than that. How am I asking for more than I give?

Thanks a lot! But probably not the right person to learn from. But that is one of the great things about the internet that you can now really always learn from the best people in their field thanks to Udemy & co.

Great to hear! If you have any problems simply post them in the forum I try to get back to you asap (sorry, will maybe be right ow longer than normal as I have a lot to follow up right now).

Sorry there was a typo on the "hosting" page. Got fixed in the meantime.

Sorry for the confusion. The 30k was just some random amount to make it easy for most people. And did honestly not expect that a lot of people's income would come to 100% from n8n. Thought it would be one of multiple things they do and so 30k seemed like more than enough to cover the majority. Additionally did I not mean that they can ever make more. I simply wrote that up to that amount they do not even have to say anything. In the next sentence it additionally says: "If you have bigger things planned simply write an email to license@n8n.io."

Honestly did not expect that people care THAT much about that. I simply fear that it confuses way more people than it helps. I myself have no idea at all what the term "source-available" really means and I assume that is the case for the most people.

But also think debatting right now further about it would not really help. Will think about it at least a night (maybe more) to make a decision. Advice also the other side to do the same to see and understand my side. If the decision is that I change it. Everything is solved anyway. If my decision is to keep it we can proceed here:

https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n/issues/40

Yes, any advice would also be very appreciated from my side.

Great to hear that the docs are helpful! They were actually the main reason why I did not launch on Product Hunt/Hackernews earlier. It was very important for me to have something in place which is at least reasonable. Nothing more annoying than bad docs. Anyway, still a lot on my list to add documentation for. But it will get better, I promise!

Yes it was and still a lot left ;-) But it was worth it as it helps me now every day and will hopefully from now on do the same for other people as well!

Which I think is quite interesting.

I can totally understand if a person says "I do not want to contribute code to a project for free when somebody else can make money with it". But then they can not contribute code to any OSI approved Open Source licensed project. Because with that license everybody can make money with it. And very often is that somebody the wrong one (like for example Amazon).

The only difference with the Commons Clause is that now still somebody can make money. But that somebody is now the entity behind the project. And they normally put that money right back into the project (by for example hiring developers) and make so sure that it improves and stays around a long time. So I personally would prefer to contribute code to a project which uses the Commons Clause then one which does not.

Thanks a lot for the info. Is fixed!