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lloydarmbrust

2,231 karma · joined August 12, 2009

2x YC, OwnLocal W10, now RonanRX S26
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lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Done
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Okay I put a disclaimer and typing up a post to link to LMK what you think: https://www.armbrustusa.com/pages/mask-testing
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Okay I put a disclaimer right on the front and we are typing up an explanation right now. Thank you for this feedback!

https://www.armbrustusa.com/pages/mask-testing

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
These are good points. Working on rewording this now.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Okay working on this now.. thanks for the suggestion. I should note that even N95 is extremely effected by fit. I've gotten as low as 80% filtration on a flat-fold N95.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Yes but it differs from model to model.

I get as low as 80% and as high as 99% on my face.

Fit is a big deal because it's personal and hard to communicate. I think it was Amazon that found when scanning their workforce that they discovered 29 different face shapes!

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Yes the reasons for failing are in our testing notes being transcribed now. Over 250 hours of actual testing just to get to this part and with Omicron we wanted to get the raw data up ASAP.

Notes should be live in about 275 of them hopefully today.

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Okay we updated the site to work on mobile. Thanks for this... seems obvious now but total miss on our part.

Thank you!!

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
We have updated the mobile view please LMK what you think.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Using the industry standard TSI PORTACOUNT® RESPIRATOR FIT TESTER 8048

It measures the air outside the mask verses inside the mask.

https://tsi.com/products/respirator-fit-testers/portacount-r...

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
IYKYK
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
A few things. The PFE test I'm doing is a 2min test and doesn't tell you what the mask will do under load (all day use). It's really a simple way to tell if the mask sucks but not if the mask is good (if that makes sense).

If someone doesn't label the mask correctly...are they even reading the standard?

The gb2626-2019 standard is 57 pages and in it you have to do a lot of very technical testing. One test requires several days of testing in a lab and is very expensive, but it's designed to make sure the mask performs under actual use (called the loading test).

If the manufacture isn't willing to put some simple words on a mask, do you think they did this complicated several-day test? Probably not.

IMO it's the brown M&M or canary in the coal mine test.

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Haha thanks.. this one got out of hand. People kept asking me if x or y mask was "good" and I was just really curious... one day I looked up and had tested more masks than the CDC.

I learned so much though about how different manufacturers do things, where they cut corners, where they invest.

One crazy thing I learned was that almost all of the KN95s on amazing were not following the GB2626-2019 ("KN95") mask spec.... even though it's not that hard. So I decided to make a KN95 that followed the spec! Great way to really get into the product.

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Not exactly.. it really depends on the situation.

For example an ASTM 2 or 3 surgical mask fabric has a filtration of 98%+

On my face I have a leakage of about 21% or PFE of 79% when worn normally.

With an ear saver, it jumps to 91%.

With a mask brace, it jumps to 98%.

So it really is about the fit.

If I put leakage % it would vary from person to person and many people would be mislead by this.

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
In the US the standards for adults are the same as kids... in China they just came out with a new standard but for reasons I wont go into we don't cover it (very China specific).

That said, I have also noticed this... if a manufacturer in China makes a great adult masks, their kids mask is likely to fail standards for filtration AND be harder to breath.

Having made both adult and kids masks I can tell you that there is way less of a demand for kids masks and because of that less attention gets paid to them on the manufacturing floor. Theory: People are just lazy and make worse masks for the kids I think because kids are not paying attention.

Furthermore, kids don't care that it passes standards, they care if there's a dinosaur on the mask or not. Even my own kids tell me my kids masks are boring! So manufacturers put their time on making it fun and not on protection.

We test both kids and adults to the same standards, use the same fabric, etc. Boring but effective :)

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Just realized you dont see the full data set unless you are on desktop...
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Looks cool too!
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Yes, it took us a long time to get it right... manufacturing is hard but that's why we have an earloop guarantee. Write support@armbrust.com and they will refund you or get you a new order.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Oh ha this is a good idea
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Sounds like a PG quote....
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
I haven't seen them... second one looks legit to me.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Cloth is pretty useless... here's a neck gaiter compared to a surgical mask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40gAXGOlEmI

Also tested my kids minion pillow case which beat the gaiter :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK_WryN-Y40

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Thanks!

Yes we are adding those notes now... most of the KN95 fails are the incorrect markings on the mask. To pass the GB2626-2019 standard (where the KN95 lives) you have to put the manufacture name, standard name (eg, "GB2626-2019"), and mask type (eg, "KN95"). About 90% of "KN95s" on amazon are fake because they do not include this... I image because the manufacturers are just trying to make a quick buck and didn't ever read the 57 page standard.

If a KF94 fails it is usually because it's not made in South Korea where all official KF94s are made.

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Yes, Elastomerics are awesome but require a completely different machine to test... plus I've found that most consumers will not buy them because of the darth vadar effect.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Exactly. We can't tell you how it will fit on your face but can tell you if the fabric fails.

You need both filtration AND fit to make a good mask.

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Ahhh... good point. The search will work but you are correct that the full version is better on desktop.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Yes. Look for masks with a double nose wire. We make one and many find it does not fog their glasses... but there are plenty of others that make them too.
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Ah! You caught a mistake. Thank you it's fixed.

China and Taiwan are separate (they make very different masks) but I haven't been able to find any from Taiwan to test.

lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
Testing masks is very specialized and all in I've spent about $250k on the mask lab. I just bought a new machine that costs about $90k. Here's an overview of the machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpjajJrDWBk
lloydarmbrust··on Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon
It's working for me, can you describe what's happening?

Good call on the color coding... I'm color blind so didn't think of this :)

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