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notreallytrue

-8 karma · joined October 18, 2020

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notreallytrue··on Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.
The US hegemony hasn't provided any benefit to anybody, except if you count millions of dead people as a benefit.

Did the impoverishment of the middle class happen before, after, or during the US hegemony?

Did the large scale wars of the past 30 years happen before, after or during US hegemony?

Did the international terrorism escalation happen bwfore, after or during the US hegemony?

The west especially is poorer and less safe.

Trump was simply the final nail in the coffin.

I think people are just connecting dots here.

I really hope Biden will realise it.

notreallytrue··on Mutated Coronavirus from Minks is a threat to Humans
> And that all started from individuals doing anything as opposed to nothing > It wasn’t the case 20 or 30 years ago

An example?

In just 20 years China has gone from 5kg of meat/year on average to 60kg/year (and growing) on average.

And they are more than a billion people.

Simply when you are not poor, you don't want to live like poor people anymore, with all its drawbacks.

In particular people that go from poor to less poor try to avoid dietary deficiencies, that caused so much pain in their past, especially for their children.

> say 5 animals a year by changing your habits vs saving 0 a year is a worthwhile improvement

Worthwhile for whom?

You can save 5 of them by sheer luck.

I know one can find meaning in almost anything, but structural change must have a structure.

> You seem to assume that it’s a choice between doing something with a lower impact and something with a higher impact.

Because it is.

Something with negligible impact has no impact, by definition.

> . There is a reason why the UN I’m has been saying for years that we must drastically lower our meat consumption if we want to keep feeding everyone

Yeah - we - means mainly US, where people eat on average around 120kg/year of meat.

It doesn't mean meat is bad, when Africa is gonna raise there gonna be almost 1 billion people that will exit food shortages and countries like Kenya or Uganda will finally pass from eating 4-5kg of meat a year, to something better for their nutritional needs, something like 30-40kg/year.

Another billion will reach a lifestyle more similar to ours.

Thew west is gonna need to share its surplus, it's not the World that needs to stop eating something because others ate too much of in the past.

That's injustice.

> I don’t think that’s true.

But unfortunately it is.

There are more than 160 million dogs and cats in USA alone, think about the entire West.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

> (they can live healthily on a vegetables diet)

It is possible, but no advisable, for many reasons:

- it's incredibly expensive

- takes a lot of care

- takes a lot of time

- chances of failure are astronomically high

- dogs are omnivore, like pandas are omnivore bears, pandas spend the entire time they are awake eating, because the nutrients of vegetables are much less energetic than eating meat directly. dogs deprived of meat would follow the same destiny.

notreallytrue··on Mutated Coronavirus from Minks is a threat to Humans
> Of course, I also don’t eat meat eggs or milk

It doesn't change a lot anyway.

It's a change for you, that's for sure, but not for the World.

For example: in US in the past 50 years meat consumption per capita has not gone down, but what radically changed is what kind of meat Americans eat.

Once was beef all the time, now more than 50% of the meat is poultry, only about 20% is beef.

Why?

Have people become more aware of the beef feelings?

The industry simply realized that poultry is a lot cheaper to farm, you can stuff a lot more of them in the same space and take a lot less time (poultry 3-4 months, vile 12-18 months)

But the margins are higher, if you sell beef (for example, just as a measure) at 10 monetary units/kg you can sell poultry at 6/kg. It will look cheaper than beef so it's gonna sell more, but truth is beef costed 6/kg to produce, poultry probably something around 0.5-1/kg.

And that's what really drives a change in habits in societies and economic system where free market is the only available choice.

It works much better and without all the friction that ethics or beliefs pose.

Next big thing is gonna be plant based food, because it's even cheaper than poultry, it's not evident if the plant is suffering or not (it's easy to recognize a limping chicken, what about a peronospora on lettuce?) but you can sell it at the same price of poultry.

Even better, thanks to the small portions packaging, you can buy at the supermarket 250gr of salad at 1.50 euro in Italy (and that's the price of the cheap one), which is 6 euros/kg, avocados cost about 7-8 euros/kg, but roasted chicken costs about 5 euros/kg!

And it's ready to eat!

That's something we should also be careful about.

But we don't.

> that’s only if you let your cat out. Every

Not really.

But suppose we do all the time.

What do they eat then?

not their owners' flesh I suppose...

They eat other animals

The meat you don't eat is gonna become food for pets (cats and dogs have a special tendency to not care about humans' religions and eat meat to survive), it's already happening, pet food is an ever growing market, which is already valued around 100 billion dollars and guess who is the primary segment for this market?

It's the US with 40% of the global market.

Cats and dogs in US are already eating, today, in 2020, 30% of the meat produced.

It they were a Nation, they would rank 5th in the World for meat consumption.

When I talk about priorities, this is what I actually mean: how many animals can we save fighting the fur industry and how many by giving up on keeping pets confined in our houses?

(the irony, minks in a cage are considered a crime, a cat in an apartment that can never go out it's caring...)

But nobody asks this question, because it's an uncomfortable one and it would mean to actually face the consequences of our actions and rethink our societies from the ground up, instead we prefer as a species to "Tilting at Windmills" the same way Don Quixote did.

notreallytrue··on Mutated Coronavirus from Minks is a threat to Humans
> We’re talking about farming animals and killing them for food or fur here

and they are two completely different categories, orders of magnitude different, and serve two completely different purposes

the amount of furs produced every year has been dropping for decades, meat consumption is not

> I personally go out of my way to not kill anything

Everyone does.

But being a S. Francesco is something we do for ourselves, it doesn't change much (it is nothing actually, but I don't want to sound insensitive)

Assuming you save 10 animals a day (which is very very very hard) it's 400 thousands animals in a lifespan of 100 years.

Meanwhile millions die everyday to keep our lifestyle going.

Meanwhile

Cats kill billions of birds every year and even more tiny rodents and other mammals in the United States

It's a matter of scale, not of will of the individual.

> because something is worse than something else or not doesn’t mean we should keep doing it

But maybe we should have priorities, so if something is not impacting the ecosystem in a meaningful way, the time used to fight it it's wasted and could be better spent on something vastly more dangerous.

notreallytrue··on Mutated Coronavirus from Minks is a threat to Humans
> Anyone could always be doing more but doing anything beats doing nothing at all.

That's a common misconception though.

US top the charts for meat consumption in the World, Kenya and Uganda are at the bottom.

Does it mean Kenya and Uganda are doing more than US?

I'm asking, because I don't have the answer, but I don't think that farming animals for fur amounts to some significant number and stopping it would change the situation in a meaningful way.

Energy consumption for example is a good indicator of lifestyle.

Norway consumes 3 times on average the average amount of energy consumed by all the other European countries.

Does that mean they are doing three times less than the average EU country?

Oil stayed with us because it's a very dense and easy to transport energy source.

You can' t transport wind or sun, you could use batteries, but they are not as dense and not as easy to stock pile.

Inertia, if you look closely, it's just another world for "lack of equally good alternatives".

The lack of durable clothing is not a direct consequence of not using vegetable materials, hemp has been used for millenia, what changed is that we buy a lot more clothes and recycle/reuse very little of them.

Because, mainly, they go out of fashion!

I believe the way we live has a much bigger impact than anything else and in that regard, even if I would never buy a fur for obvious reasons, I think fur farming is not the worst offender.

notreallytrue··on Mutated Coronavirus from Minks is a threat to Humans
> If we wanted

Who's we though?

I want, you want, everybody say they want them, but then fashion industry makes billions.

And not for the lack of durable clothing

My real leather shoes are 20 years old

My sneaker are less than a year old and already not good enough to walk

The problem is I can't wear leather shoes all the time and even if I buy expensive clothing,they are not durable enough to be on par with the ones my grandfather (he was a tailor) made 50-60 years ago.

The offer is simply not there (except luxury goods, which are usually made with old school materials, that's why they cost so much) and the bulk of the demand is simply made of cheap and affordable sh*t.

On the other hand my girlfriends owns a fur that belonged to here grand-grandmother, it's 60 years old, it still looks brand new.

1 human of the past = 1 fur for life

1 modern human = at least 2 or 3 jackets every season.

You want durable stuff and not pollute the environment with dangerous chemicals?

The old way it's still the best.

> No need to farm and kill animals for that

The pollution already kills a lot lot more of them than the fur industry.

Simply owning a cat is already a threat to ecosystem that compared to it the number of minks killed for their fur is an insignificant number.

notreallytrue··on Mutated Coronavirus from Minks is a threat to Humans
We are not doing it though

What do you do if a snake or a cockroach appears in your house?

What happens if a bear wants to share the same living space you live in?

I understand your position, but the simple fact that we live in a modern World and we are at the top of it "inflicts animals this existence"

I like to not do it on purpose and I don't own a fur, if that's what you are curious about, but I'm not lying to myself believing that mink farming is worse than living in big cities that pollute the environment irreparably

Am I being cautious enough?

I don't think so...

notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
> Bolsonaro helped them too?

He's giving them medals now.

> I don't know if you understood what I meant, but I'm Jewish and because of antisemitism, which we have back in cities like in Berlin or Paris, I don't feel there safe there as I felt in Sao Paulo.

I don't know if you understood that it's your feeling, not a fact.

There are more nazi and nazi heirs living in Brazil than in the rest of the World.

If you feel safer in Sao Paulo than in Berlin, it means you are part of an elite that is not affected by Sao Paulo criminality.

“Massacre the Jews, God, hit them with your sword, for they have left God, they have left the nations. ... God, what you have done in World War II, you must do again, this is what we ask for in our prayers to you: Justice, justice, justice!”” Pastor Tupirani da Hora Lores shouted at dozens of congregants earlier this month at his Geracao Jesus Cristo church"

Have you got news of something like that in Berlin?

Did Bolsonaro said something about it?

> You don't idea about the CSU/CDU parties (party from Germany) in Germany. But again, no reference, just the socket puppet in the internet saying.

I sure have, I'm Italian, part of my family moved to Germany soon after the war and lived in Berlin myself.

Frau Merkel surely didn't ever support anti-semitic or anti democratic groups or movements.

Anyway CSU and CDU are two very different beasts, just putting them together shows that you are just trying to spew propaganda.

> You are trolling with a lot of "factoids" to support your agenda

I have no agenda other than stopping your BS about Bolsonaro the great democratic president.

He is not.

He is a dangerous man.

With dangerous ideas.

> What make you angry are stuff like:

LOL

No, it doesn't.

North Korea style propaganda doesn't affect me, sorry.

notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
Who is receiving the guns?

Mussolini did the same thing, he knew very well guns were not going to opposition but to his supporters that used them to kill or oppress his opponents.

The rhetoric of "citizens that simply want to defend themselves" is an empty one.

notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
> To compare the Brazilian Government with The Nazi Period

Never did.

I compared the military coups, which Bolsonaro is rooting for, undeniably, to the military government the nazi-fascists had over Germany and Italy and then Europe.

They came to power thanks to the military support.

As every far right movement usually does.

Bolsonaro is praising and rallying for a return of the military dictatorship.

He was there, in person, endorsing it.

> my family moved from what today is Poland to Brazil, around 40s

So did thousands of former SS officials who went to live there after WW2, protected and kept hidden.

Including Joseph Mengele.

> I feel safe to wear my Kippah in Sao Paulo, but I don't feel safe to do it in Paris or Berlin (city where I studied and lived)

Are you sure?

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-as-coronavirus-r...

As much as I respect feelings, they are just feelings.

Sao Pauol has a much higher crime rate and 10 to 15 times worse homicide rate than Berlin, you might feel safer, but you are not safer.

“I hope God continues to enlighten President Jair Bolsonaro because he has a Jew who is at the head of the Senate at his disadvantage, Jews are miserly. Jews are wicked and think only of their well-being.”

Said Bolsonaro's supporters when the first Jewish president of Brazilian Congress was nominated.

Have you seen supporters of Merkel or Macron write something like that?

Uncondemned?

Remember that Bolsonaro in Brazil controls the media, but he cannot hide that under his government

> And if two key elements had been missing – anti-Semitism and the use of the state apparatus, especially the police, to stifle the press and persecute political dissenters – and thus prevented us from characterizing Bolsonaro and his gang as fascists once and for all, that is no longer the case.

> 1. On its official website and its verified Twitter profile, the Brazilian Army recently honored and treated as a "martyr" Eduard Ernest Thilo Otto Maximilian von Westernhagen, a Nazi major who was decorated by Hitler and killed in Brazil by members of the Colina, a resistance group against the military dictatorship and its state terrorism.

> Bolsonaro’s Justice Minister Sérgio Moro – after being unmasked in the conspiracy against former President Lula and Brazilian democracy as a judge of Operation Lava Jato, which was denounced by The Intercept – decided to use the Federal Police to try to intimidate the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald, editor of the prestigious news site, and to persecute me over a conspiracy theory.

Moro is the same man that presented testimony for interference with justice by Bolsonaro that the president from his social account called "a traitor, a Juda"

Moro was chosen by Bolsonaro himself, exactly because he handled the operation "car wash" that illegally put Lula out of the competition.

If a man who obstructed justice to stop a former President to run for re-election is saying that the current President is interfering with justice, it is probably worse than we think.

notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
Not when is Fascists Against Democracy™
notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
> you cannot compare right in Brazil with Nazi Period

Is it true or not that Bolsonaro is against democracy and rallied against it or not?

Can you find a moment when French or German president said something like "the military must be back in power"?

The last time it happened in Europe was when nazi ruled, or when in Spain the fascist ruled, or when in Greece the fascists ruled etc. etc. I think the comparison is apt.

> user: notreallytrue created: 8 minutes ago

I know for a fact what happens to you when you go against far right movements, especially south american ones.

Better safe than sorry.

notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
Because he is in the same ballpark of the other 3, denial of the covid dangers, a strong sentiment of economy over people lives and the call to sacrifice

Isn Boris Johnson who said “I must level with you, I must level with the British public, Many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time.” just to keep the business going?

I'm sorry but UK had it very bad under Johnson, it's an undeniable fact.

notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
It's affecting everybody, I stayed home 110 consecutive days, when, I was living in Milan until July.

What looks infringement of freedom to you, to someone else is the best you can ask for.

I wish I could go as far as 5km from my house when I was in complete lockdown.

notreallytrue··on The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights
So you don't know about his endorsement for #SomosTodosBolsonaro and the "fuck you day" and that "in an April rally also attended by Bolsonaro, demonstrators called on Sunday for the closing of the Supreme Court and Congress, and a return to authoritarian measures used during Brazil’s 1964-1985 military government"?

You don't know that he "ordered the country’s armed forces to commemorate the anniversary of the 1964 coup which brought the military to power."?

You don't know about his interference with justice and when Moro presented testimony about it Bolsonaro tweeted that he was "a traitor, a Juda"?

You don't know that "As Bolsonaro’s relationship with legislators and the courts has cooled, he has become increasingly dependent on a cadre of advisers in his government who are active or former military"?

You don't know that in a Facebook live he said “We have the armed forces at the people’s side: the side of order, democracy, liberty,”?

You really don't know any of this?

Tell me. if you can, when in France or Germany the President attended a far right rally where they hoped to return to the nazi period...

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