1,757 karma · joined March 4, 2007
But seriously, I'm more concerned with the student who is interested in doing both and is still unsure of their career, than in the competent professional like you or me. It is obvious that the field wants desingineers, more than self-teaching can produce - what can we do to encourage them, either at the educational or at the job title/industry level?
Indeed, this post was not meant to be bitter - and I think I would do it again - but it was meant to point out that the longer we take to pin down a definition, the more out of control it will get. I have half a mind to start some sortof of "Desingineers Association" to help get this solidified, in much the same way the Interaction Designers Association was so crucial for solidifying that movement in the late 2000s. Thoughts on that would be appreciated.
After getting a BS and M.Eng in Computer Science, everyone was pleased as punched to let me code for them. But I wanted to code and design interfaces as well. What a strange idea - a programmer also making the interfaces.
Well, it turned out no one would take me seriously unless I had designed interfaces in a professional environment before. I needed someone that would take a chance on me, to actually let me design their UIs while hiding me away in their software team. (I managed to find one job that would, and for that I'm forever grateful.)
Once I picked up some experience designing UIs, the top companies wouldn't would take me seriously until I had some formal design training and credentials. So, I went back for a degree in Interaction Design.
Once I finished my degree, the top companies wouldn't take me seriously until I shipped some code that had my own designs in it. So I did that for a while, in a few hybrid dev/designer positions.
Once I shipped my code, the top companies wouldn't take me seriously until I had shipped a design of my own creation that was also my own (so, owning the UI, UX, code and business strategy). So I got back into entrepreneurship (something I'd largely given up with my pure CS focus), and started creating and shipping my own designs.
Now, as an entrepreneur, interaction designer and computer scientist, the top companies won't take me seriously until I start shipping designs of my own creation that are also visually stunning. Working on it. :)
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Only now, six years later, do I realize that no one will ever take you seriously unless they can define you. Programmers can be understood, and slotted. They have real, respected career paths. Designers can be understood, and slotted. They have real, respected career paths as well. Even Interaction Designers are slowly becoming understood.
Being a desingineer, while bringing me incredible amounts of joy, also feels absolutely terrible - because people are constantly coming along with ideas of what you can or should bring to an organization. The limits of the position are such unknowns, in fact, that sometimes people feel desingineers should be everything to everyone.
Sometimes that comes out of with a sense of greed - after all, it's on the desingineer to prove they shouldn't have to do all of those things, right? And, in fact, they feel entitled to everything. Early-stage startups are particularly bad about this, I've noticed - their "first designer hire" posts often forget that everyone starts somewhere. (Sorry, but it's true.)
But other times people simply misunderstand how long it takes to become good at each of the individual skill sets involved. And other times companies are still sorting out what skill sets their companies actually need in the same person.
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Is there anything we can do, as a community, to bring some clarity and definition to "desingineering" - so kids coming out of school don't have to go through what I have gone through? It's obvious that this is a position that companies need, but it's not one that will be treated with respect until its own practioners - a fair number of whom seem to be on HN - actively come together to help define it.
Brooklyn born and bred. My writing on technology has appeared in the NY Times, Slate, Atlantic and Fast Company. Currently editor of this here BetaBeat.
Just one piece seems missing from this article. If you're not doing Adeptley.com - what are you doing now, and do you regret not doing Adeptley?
Sure, some mistakes will get made - but a company's success factors are rarely as simple as their three-word description.
That said, you sound pretty cool, and you seem pretty cool for writing this. I'm thinking about moving out there myself, ideally to found something. I'll be in town next week for two weeks. Ping me and we'll try to grab coffee. :)
Oh, and where are these "HN Meetings?" Will there any chance be any between Oct 25th and Nov 8th? :P
(Though for making such a generous offer, I should be the one buying you the beer. I admire what you're doing here greatly - it's always a smart idea to use your down time to build up a little karma. :) )
Do people no longer feel that "the amount a graduate student makes for three months" is enough to actually start a company? Or is this more reflective of the market value rising for the amount of equity typically taken by a top incubator? If it's the latter, wouldn't there be a new opportunity for an incubator to give grad student wages to willing companies for a much smaller equity stake?
That said, pretty cute. I like it. You could make a cute viral Facebook app out of something like this (though maybe with less nerdy milestones).
From MIT alone, I can point you to recent YC company Venuetastic, and their two female MIT founders (Helen Belogolova and Christine Yen). I can't imagine they'd both be busy. Also, the CEO and Founder of the startup I work for, Smarterer, is female. We're right here in Boston and were recently funded by Google Ventures. There are more examples for sure, but you get the idea.
I understand that there are tradeoffs to be made between getting the hottest and most famous speakers, and getting a variety of perspectives. Kresge has 1,200 seats, and you want - need, even - to fill all of them. That said, the echo chamber that is Silicon Valley does have a habit of amplifying the male voice over the female voice. To acknowledge that fact, and perhaps be proactive in trying to compensate for it (did you try Jessica Mah, for instance?), would do a better job of satisfying those who are giving you said flack.
Has anyone done this before? If so, did you find that people were generally supportive, or ticked off?
Now, YC companies seem the least likely to have anything to hide about themselves. That said, when I see an ad like this, my first reaction is to shy away - because even if they do have some legit reason for staying stealth (competitiveness, hiding YC funding, etc), they could also be doing this just to hide some fact that I might find negative later in the interview process. I've been burned one too many times by non-YC companies doing this to me, that I'm concerned to see YC companies doing it too.
Get your equity contract drawn up before you do a thing. Set up a schedule for your equity to be awarded as your work progresses, not all "at some point in the future" - to ensure that even if you get canned quickly (or they raise money and decide to squeeze you out) you still get something for your trouble.
If they're not willing to give you a very strong equity offer (in writing), try to get them to agree to a deferred salary agreement. Again, in writing, where if they raise money, they're actually going to give you some of it. Only do this if you feel fairly confident they will in fact raise some amount of cash someday (or you like the project enough that you're willing to take the risk.)
If they won't agree to either of these things, run.
Apparently Jessica (the author) is a nicer person than I am.
That said, whipping up a flyer pro-bono might be faster than whipping up a web design pro-bono (which is the situation I find myself in) - so I suspect this chart needs to be scaled to the time required to perform one's profession. I'd be curious to see what the "hey, can you make me a website?" version of this looks like.
That said, if you're serious about having them make a career there, I wouldn't low-ball them too much - or at least be prepared to give them a big raise their second year. Within about a year, if they're any good at all, they're going to realize that they can make more elsewhere - especially if they're willing to leave central FL. I think Orlando would bring both positions at least 60k with a year of experience, and the last thing you want is to train someone for a whole year only to have them leave because they feel their job isn't competitive / is "dead-end".
The only Wall St firms I know that don't treat their entry-level employees like revolving doors, are also the ones that pay much higher than 50k for base (and don't make as big of a deal about bonuses, even if they do have them.)