teekert

You are right! They must have just now switched this back, I also have the toggle now! It was turned on sadly but it’s something.

Ok it (org wide toggle) just (24h after posting this) returned and the docs were changed again! They now include the text:

"Vibe (Teams): Administrators can disable data training usage for the entire organization."

That’s nice! Except that it was on for my entire org so I’ll be checking if they didn’t store anything first thing tomorrow. I wonder what changed their minds.

My allergy to Claudish is also rapidly progressing. I think it’s now at a boundary that is genuinely worth exploring. Oh no!

I once walked into a drive through in Texas (Galveston) with a group of scientists there for a conference (because main restaurant was closed), we almost got shot (no not really but people felt very very threatened and threatened us)!

The US is extremely car focused, which they often don't really realize. Things that are normal here (like everybody has a bike) conflicts with their cyclers vs drivers culture. Such a distinction simply does not exist here. Instead we have roads that are red with signs "Cars are guests". Or indeed city centers where cars aren't allowed.

When I go to the US I'm often surprised that you can't get to things that are only a km away by foot because a road is blocking you, no way to cross it.

Haha, I was more like: I have to think alone now. But I get the feeling, as someone who has always made a point of using only foss on my own machines (own the means of production so to say), this is a weird time. I don't like it, I hope soon local models get good. But in the mean time... We have this... dependency.

A nice chance to try sonnet again, must say, I'm not missing the load bearing assumptions, honest read of the permission matrix, what's genuinely a Django convention and what's a design choice, what's worth my thinking, and what's worth being precise about.

Long story short, it seems to be faster and less vocal but not much dumber (it's just my thinking partner, so I read a lot of the output as I create a large data model).

Mistral support just confirmed that the org-wide toggle was removed from the Team plan earlier this year and made exclusive to the enterprise tier. I bet that if you signed up earlier, they didn't remove it from your account, but it's not there for new customers. Which explains some of the confusion here.

Also explains that the community support in Discord insisted that the toggle should be there, moreover they told me the individual toggles on the user's pages wouldn't do anything because it defaulted to "off" for any organization, as per their docs until 2 days ago. But that changed.

Haha, feels indeed like the bottom of the G is overlapped by something. A bit weird.

You can set an extra password for pass but still.

I for one also have my 2fa with them... I get the feeling.

I really enjoy Proton Pass (but I have a paid subscription so I have passmail aliasses as well). I've been going full passkeys recently, no issues yet.

Before this I used Vaultwarden, but I was always a bit afraid of the self-hosting (of something this critical), and I really didn't like how you share credentials in BitWarden (through organizations), Proton Pass is much more intuitive with just straight up sharing of credentials or sharing whole Vaults. You can also share through public 1-time visit, limited time valid-urls. I use that a lot when I set up people's accounts.

What I don't like is the tight coupling to Proton's services, Pass should have had it's own credentials. But if you're not a Proton user that doesn't matter (or perhaps it doesn't matter t you in any case.)

I think it only goes for new users/orgs. I was caught between the time they changed the default and updated their docs. I don't believe they would alter users/organizations exiting choices. In facts, from some of the responses it seems that some still retain the toggle to opt out their entire org.

This post is only about the defaults, and expectations therefore for Team and Enterprise plans and their organizational controls.

I think they removed the toggle for new customers (on the Team plan) because I don’t have it. If I had, I probably wouldn’t have posted this.

I mean it’s still annoying that I subscribe my org because they say the toggle is off, then find users telling me in fact it is on. Then to find that I can’t disable it org wide and have to ask each user to “please watch out” is pretty humiliating.

This is about the Team plan specifically, which was like enterprise before. And it’s about the removal of the option to disable training on user input for all users from said plan at the org level, all last week.

They don’t switch it for you probably, that would be very bad. But the default for new users and orgs on the Team plan just changed. But they didn’t update the docs for a while which left me confused as I started my subscription after they switched but before they updated their docs.

“Just in my toilet, I’m supposed to have an app for the seat, an app for the flush and one for the ventilation.”

Ok that explains where the hate for apps comes from…

There is no toggle in my admin settings to disable this for the whole org (when on the Team plan). If it was there before they recently removed it.

"Mistral always trained on your data by default except for the enterprise plan" - This is not true, until last week all docs stated that the use of your interactions with Vibe to train Mistral's AI models was off by default on the Team plan. Now that is only still the case on the enterprise plan.

You can still easily disable "Allow the use of your interactions with Vibe to train Mistral's AI models." What's annoying is that they switched this to on by default on Team plans with no way to turn it off for your whole team/org, this week.

Defaults matter. The expectation for an organization tier plan is not that you have to go and ask each user in your org to please turn off "Allow the use of your interactions with Vibe to train Mistral's AI models" before starting your work.

When I started my search for an AI "partner" the Mistral TEAM plan had "use my prompts for training" turned off by default, as per their docs in multiple places. I could have sworn I saw a organization switch in my dashboard for this setting org wide, but am not sure.

I start the subscription, users report it is "on" by default, I ask support what's up, they say "sorry, docs should have been updated earlier but they are now". And they give me a lot of credits.

I just want to warn people, the Team sub just changed, docs were update too late, there was very little press about this (in my view) very important change. Actually, it is so important that I would not advice Mistral to our management if they'd use our prompts for training, so I take a TEAM sub so this is disabled for sure, or I can disable this org wide. But I can't anymore, now I have to ask each user/seat to disable sharing, and hope they do, I have no way to check. Way to inspire confidence. And their response: "You can still do this with the Enterprise subscription".

We flamed Anthropic for their switcheroo with their personal Pro plan a year ago [0], now Mistral does it with their business focused Team plan, so they deserve some fire imo.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45076274

The toggles I see

at https://admin.mistral.ai/vibe/privacy:

Allow public sharing of chats content

Allow user feedback on model responses

Chat Retention Policy

At https://admin.mistral.ai/plateforme/privacy I see

Allow the use of your API calls to train Mistral’s AI models.

Enable Labs models

So indeed, no "Allow the use of your interactions with Vibe to train Mistral’s AI models". I only see that setting here: https://chat.mistral.ai/chat?profile_dialog=privacy And I have to ask every user in my org to go and turn it off.

"No model training on your content by default" [0]

It's not the default on any Team plans and didn't used to be at Mistral (until last week or so). The team plan has a central admin role and page, and "seats".

And if it was the default, then I'd still expect a big button to turn it off for all seats, and not have to ask all user separately. But this changed over night and that button is not there. Although I expect it used to be, because some people here report that they have it.

https://claude.com/pricing#team-&-enterprise

Idk, feels like my brain does not have the model for this, this does not exist in my language afaik haha.

Yes, individual indeed (used to different but changed about a year ago, see [0] among others].

For the Team and Enterprise plans de default is "not sharing prompts for training" (which I mistakenly referred to as opted out of sharing prompts for training.) [1]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45076274

[1] https://claude.com/pricing#team-&-enterprise

I don't have that toggle (but could indeed have sworn I saw it earlier).

Sorry, I have always thought that "opting in" is, "opting for the presented option" and opting out is "opting out of it", so opting out [of sharing prompts for training] is choosing to not share, but apparently I was wrong my whole life. I'm not a native speaker, and I think most people here (in my country) would interpret this the way I do? Weird but TIL.

You are "opting in to sharing your prompts for training", by default in this case. My slider says: "Allow the use of your interactions with Vibe to train Mistral's AI models.", it is on by default for everyone on the Team plan, the admin can't centrally turn it off anymore, and any user can toggle it when they want to. This all changed last week.

I know I'm naive but I expect that when I pay, this stuff is simply off, so I was already surprised by the Pro plan. But I did look out for it there, because Anthropic made this switch some time ago.

Context: After careful research our organization preferred a European partner with good central privacy controls. We landed on Mistral, after being disappointed that the Pro tier was opt-in to training on prompts by default we switched up to the Team tier which provides an organization dashboard with some relevant settings. As we did that Mistral changed these options and the Team tier was now also opt-in by default and at the same time seemed to have lost the ability to centrally disable training on prompts for your entire organization. This even caused some of our (testing) prompts to be used for training (which Mistral removed after we expressed our disappointment).

For some time these pages conflicted with what our users reported (they said that in contrast to what I stated to our management they found they were opted into training on prompts by default as per their own privacy page). Mistral just now corrected their docs. I'm not sure how long the conflicting situation has lasted, but at least for several days.

For contrast: Claude disables training on prompts for organizations starting from the 18 euro tier [0]. As a European I'm disappointed.

[0] https://claude.com/pricing#team-&-enterprise

My Linux kernel is not riddled with ads?

Maybe companies should see browsers more as a the Linux kernel, a precompetitive commodity layer on top of which we deliver/extract value to/from users.

Ah well, people love hearing what fits their world view. So if you hate LLM assisted development or vibe coding, Ed is predicting the future you want ("Don't be afraid, it's going away soon!"). As with any sudden change, there are people that tap the brake instinctively. And people like Ed thus get popular.

That, and he has a nice way of speaking like everyone's gone mad but you and him ;) Have to admit I have enjoyed his rants, and there are certainly true things about them, here's another nice one for you lovers and haters alike! [0]

[0] https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:74...