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Comment by smt88 | Hacker News Reader

> The guys at Epic

The people at Epic. Sorry, I know it's annoying, but sexism in computing isn't going to change if we don't pay attention to the language we use.

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I don't think 'guys' just refers to males.

It's a cultural thing and varies hugely depending on which country you're in. In my bit of Britain it's quite common for groups of women to refer to themselves as 'guys'.

Guy Fawkes was male, and there is a feminine equivalent gals, but I think guys is slowing moving over into gender neutral territory (it wasn't when I was a kid, but times change).

In the US, it depends heavily on context. "The guys" or "those guys" almost always implies males. Same with any singular usage of the word "guy".

"You guys" is the only usage that can refer to a mixed-gender group. Obviously, that isn't how GP used it.

I agree, both generally and specifically. Supporting your argument is Bell Labs' `sexist`[0], a commmandline tool, part of the Writer's Workbench.

http://man.cat-v.org/unix_WWB/1/sexist

A relevant section from its man page:

    [When given a file as input, sexist prints alternatives] 
    using neutral terms instead of sex-related terms.
    For example "business executive" could easily replace
    the stereotypic "businessman."

To me, "businessman" can be gender neutral just as "guys" can be gender neutral. Today we[1] don't use "businessman" for the same reason that in some years we won't use "guys"; it still gives a biased-towards-men picture of people.

[0] I'm citing Bell Labs because they're prestigious and respected by HN.

[1] Because I'm trying to influence the vox populi, I'm using "we" imprecisely. I hope that those who disagree with me follow my argument even though I'm not speaking for them.

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