I had no idea people are working so hard to buy stuff with fake or stolen credit card information. Bots running on AWS to sell stuff on eBay, then actually purchase the sold item and have it sent to the buyer. Wow
Given all the call centers and operations in India and the Philippines, for example, these low-wage countries may have a good number of people who understand how eBay and PayPal systems work. They certainly have a number of tech savvy and multi lingual folks.
If these really are Indian based, I'd argue their modern robin hood efforts aren't a good idea. However I know next to nothing about Indian culture, and we don't really know where the origin of the scam is coming from. It could be US based.
[rant]
In general, I'm unimpressed with the ability of the US government to identify major online scamming patterns and execute effectively deterring consequences for the perpetrators, as well as enact legislation that is not overreaching.
I recall one I got hit by a buyer's club called Reservation Rewards / Web Loyalty in 2007. They started in 2000. They still exist and are still scamming people under the name Affinion, Trilegiant and a host of other buyer's club names that they come up with.
In 2007, I had entered my email address twice to receive some coupon after registering for a road race on active.com. Unbeknownst to me, this legally authorized them to share my credit card with another company and start billing me $10 monthly. Apparently at that time, entering your email into two different text boxes constituted a legal signature. I didn't read the fine print because it just looked like a coupon that would be emailed to me. It didn't look like I was buying anything. I never thought my CC # could be transferred like that and have me charged by a different company. I think the partnering company (active.com, fandango.com, and others) gets a kickback from RR's "coupon" scam which is a modern discount buyer's club.
Anyway, I didn't notice the recurring charges for a few months. Once I did I found this company had been scamming people for years, since 2000. I called to get a refund and got it back in full. They put up some resistance, but having read other peoples' experiences, I knew what they would say and what I should say back. I wrote a few lengthy comments online, considered that my contribution and moved on.
There was a TV report done on them in 2009, in which their CEO stated they were following all laws in all states [1]
Web Loyalty was subsequently involved in a class action lawsuit, in which they settled [2]
According to a review on Glassdoor from a former employee, the company has since been sold to another one called Affinion [3]
There are several revealing Glassdoor reviews from current Affinion employees, this one is worth sharing [4]
In October 2013, Affinion settled with 46 state attorneys general to refund $19 million to tricked consumers. [5]
There are many complaints about Affinion on BBB.org, some of which look just like the old ones about Reservation Rewards / Web Loyalty. That is, charges for services for which people never signed up [6]
There are also some recent complaints about "Web Loyalty" here on BBB although they really fall under Affinion now. [7]
I recall reading one comment where a person was only billed once every six or 12 months, rather than monthly, so they nearly missed it.
This company has been operation for 15 years and is clearly still scammy. I'm sure lawyers would look at this and tell you it happens all the time. It's their job to see this.
To me, this is unacceptable. When you steal cash from a store you go to jail. When you scam people out of money over the internet, you get fined some amount less than your profit, make some minimal adjustment to your scamming service, perhaps sell the business to another one, get a new name and then resume as usual with a small hit to profit.
Our society does not benefit from the little money coming back via these fines.
When is our government going to learn that fines are not a proper deterrent for super scale larceny?
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0RzjkOirHg
[2] http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2009/08/27/webloyalty-customer...
> "A sinking ship with part of the hull still miraculously above water. Affinion is a "Business Parody" at best."
> Pros
> I cannot, in all honesty, find one single benefit of choosing Affinion as an employer as opposed to the next company. Like quicksand, every reason for working there gets sucked into an abyss.
> Cons
> The only benefit of ever working at Affinion would be the lesson one could learn about how unethical companies with a sketchy business model are able to survive this long. At best, it is a sinking ship on its last leg of survival.
> Advice to Management
> Those in "upper management" play their "oblivious" roles to perfection. The fact is, the emperor has no clothes on...and yet every one of them can describe the non-existent clothes to the last thread.
[5] http://www.cleveland.com/consumeraffairs/index.ssf/2013/10/a...
[6] http://www.bbb.org/connecticut/business-reviews/buying-clubs...
[7] http://www.bbb.org/connecticut/business-reviews/buying-clubs...
[/rant]
And please don't blame only third world citizens - most of the time they're just grunts, the masterminds are usually in the countries where cards are actually stolen from (i.e. first world, rich, etc.)
Sorry, I don't buy it. We don't know exactly the details of how these scams are happening or who is conscious of what they're doing. However, whoever does control the details of setting up on AWS can certainly make a living wage elsewhere.
Stealing is not acceptable within any society. We are all human beings, we share this earth, let's share not steal.
Now couple it with the gang aspect.
I don't know what you mean by gang aspect. Yes organized crime exists and forces people to participate. Are you saying there's a high likelihood that the people who set up these scams are being forced to do it by a gang? I don't know anything about the likelihood of that. As far as I know, all participants in tech criminal rings are willing. If people are being forced to join against their will, someone should shed light on that.
> If you want to solve most crime issues in a real way, stop it from being the only choice many people have to "get ahead" or even survive
Globalization provides more international tech jobs daily. Governments and businesses are opening schools across the world to teach towards these jobs and try to keep pace with the growing population. Internet access for self-training is accessible in many third world countries. This infrastructure doesn't build itself. Most people will contribute towards making it better.
> Crime is unquestionably coorlated with poverty, you can't just dismiss that with banal moralizations of how BAD these people are
I'm not. We don't know the details here but we can make an educated guess. We know that someone in this operation knows how to work with AWS. We also know that there are tech jobs in every country. We don't know exactly what the job opportunities are like in the area of the actual thief who knows what he's doing, but we can imagine there is a tech job they could land.
Let us not call theft acceptable when there is evidence that the thief seems to have the skill to get a decent job.
From the top to the bottom, everybody steals, but only the pawns take the fall when the time comes. Look for the head of a problem (and cut it off), not it's tail...
Yes of course people steal, and it is forgivable. Nonetheless, it's not legal anywhere. Most of us do not knowingly make an entire living out of stealing while we could be pursuing legitimate job opportunities elsewhere. Everyone makes their own choices.
> From the top to the bottom, everybody steals
Everyone does not steal for a living. Most people contribute towards making happier communities. Are people perfect? No. If I see one criminal get away with a crime in my community, does that justify my criminal behavior? Do two wrongs make a right?
> only the pawns take the fall when the time comes. Look for the head of a problem (and cut it off), not it's tail...
That is case by case and you cannot say it is always the tail. CEOs and presidents alike have been fired, jailed or forced from office.