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Comment by intsunny | Hacker News Reader

Its interesting you mention this, because the same trains that the run through some of the poorest areas of the city, also run through the wealthiest area of the city. (D train, Norwood and UWS. 2/3 trains, Tribeca and East New York.)

The ability for any New Yorker to be just about anywhere regardless of income is unparalleled.

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Yup, it was always fun to see the bankers on the UES forced to stand in the morning while Bronx commuters got to sit down.

Personally, I think the subway is a great force for egalitarianism.

During the periods of reduced service, I could always hop on a 6 train at 116th Street, while people who lived in the UES had to wait hours for a spot on a train. I was pleasantly surprised to see that even the wealthiest and most powerful New Yorkers respected the unwritten rules of MTA etiquette.

I've also seen times when order has broken down during rush hour in Manhattan, and the transit employees start talking about calling the transit police. This was back in the early 90's, and from what I've seen, those guys were feared! People started backing away from the train and stopped crowding it after the mention.

What unwritten rule do you mean? They couldn't fit on the train in the first place, right?

There's strong social pressure enforcing a first-come, first-serve rule on seats and standing room. Seats are only surrendered for the pregnant or disabled, and standing room is only surrendered if a child pushed his way onto a train but his parent or guardian didn't quite make it.

In other cities, I've seen people ask for spots on an otherwise full bus or train because they were running late. That would be unheard of in a NYC subway.

Do people really have to wait _hours_ for a spot on a train?

New Yorkers may exaggerate from time to time. But I have been at the 1st Avenue L stop during the morning rush and had to let 3 trains go by before getting on to the fourth (probably 20 minutes total waiting). I probably should have walked at some point but then I would have had to pay again at Union Square.

1st Ave L is probably one of the most crowded stops in the morning for rush hour in the city, probably competing closely with Lorimer and Bedford L stops. In PM out of the city Union Square is similarly packed, and the train is nearly empty once you pass Lorimer

When I lived in Chicago, the State Street Subway at evening rush hour would have every car packed literally sardine tight. They could barely close the doors and there was barely room to breathe, forget about sitting down. I'm sure it was illegal but the conductors seemed to just pack people on until there wasn't room for one more.

Do you mean ask people to move in? Or actually ask that someone gets off for them?

I think you're hitting on the biggest contributor to this feeling of it being one city. In pretty much every city on the planet you have the different districts that are known for different things, predominantly the wealth of that area, but New York is somewhat unique in how intertwined and connected all of those distinct districts are in that city. As others point out, the same trains all go through the same areas, and everybody rides them. It's hard to develop the "little people" attitude when you spend so much time around said little people.

This is hardly unique to New York. Many European cities have this feature (it was deliberately designed into London, for example).

It may be unique to New York within the US.

Have you been to London lately? It's heavily segregated, and the only place I've seen much mixing is at the chip shop or curry joint.

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