Comment by Cookingboy | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Cookingboy | Hacker News Reader

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As a long time BMW fan who has a M3 on order, it really is kind of sad to see that the company is becoming less and less inspired and more and more focused on short term shareholder happiness.

One one hand, the company is completely ditching its enthusiast root, at least within its main non-M lineups. The current generation 3 series is one of the worst offenders at this. In order to pursue mass market profitability, the 3 series has been watered down, its steering became heavily assisted electric systems, its suspension is tuned for comfort for a more "floaty" feel, its interior looks good in photos but are filled with cheap plastic everywhere to save cost. Its brakes no longer bite as hard because BMW doesn't want to replace too many rotors under their maintenance plane. The old king of sports sedans now drives like an overpriced and under-equipped Accord with worse reliability but faster acceleration.

On the other hand their lineups are exploding like Samsung's cellphone lines 5 years ago. Just in the U.S. market there is the 2, 3, 3GT, 3 ActiveHybrid, 4, 4GC, 5, 5GT, 5 ActiveHybrid, 6, 6GC, 7 series, then there is the X1, X3, X4, X5, X6, Z4, and then there is the M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, M5 GC, and X5 M, X6 M. Then there is the i3 and i8. They are really trying to go for market share, but are losing leadership positions in many market sectors that they used to completely dominate (ATS-V now drives better than a M3, C class now is just as sporty and way more luxurious than a 3 series).

And now they are barely dangling their feet in the EV front, while Tesla is charging ahead full speed (pun intended). M division is still doing good work technically, but even them are lost in the "spec game" and their new cars are all faster but less fun to drive than their predecessors.

My advice to BMW: Kill the i division, don't make EV a freaking hobby, do a serious EV within your main line-up and heavily push it. Don't be afraid to give it a sports tuned suspension with heavy and precise steering, add some of that old BMW magic back. Even if it doesn't become profitable in the short term it will create a halo effect for the whole company. Otherwise it's only a matter of time that the old school enthusiasts completely abandon you and the newer generations go chase after Teslas.

/rant

>My advice to BMW: Kill the i division, don't make EV a freaking hobby, do a serious EV within your main line-up and heavily push it.

Make an all-electric version of the 3, 5 series and X series to go toe-to-toe with Tesla directly, instead of watered down hybrids with shit range under a non-mainstream product line.

Additionally, Audi's (under the VW umbrella not BMW group) is "Vorsprung durch Technik", which is used in most of their non-US marketing. It translates as "Progress through innovation", if they were serious about this they would have taken the EV market much more seriously by now.

The i8 is serious car. The i3 is not bad, either.

> Make an all-electric version of the 3, 5 series and X series to go toe-to-toe with Tesla directly

I have my popcorn ready for Tesla's production ramp-up.

The i8 isn't messing around. It's a 0-60 in 3.6 second 29 mpg car, with a completely different design than Tesla. It's a genuine production vehicle, not a concept.

That's not too bad for a stodgy old company. Large ships turn slowly, and sometimes it takes a while for management to see the writing on the wall.

I don't know how the i3 drives, but I was short of shocked at how ugly (err maybe I should say quirky) the car looked - it looks like a toaster - and the two toned paint jobs it seems to often come with is even more of a head scratcher. It may perform well, and actually be a useful form factor - but IMHO the look of it is basically guaranteed to further limit the appeal of that product to a even smaller sub-group of the people who would consider electric in the first place.

I wonder if the i8 has the opposite problem - it looks lovely to me, but is a fairly radical design and again you might be turning away people who want an electric option, but don't necessarily want to call blaring attention to themselves.

Tesla has a problem where they don't have the cash on hand to build that production line quickly, nor have the equipment on site or people trained to use it for the capacity they will need.

BMW's i3 and i8 are both attempts at not only testing electrification but beyond that they went after materials testing and packaging. As in, the i3 was a moon shot in materials technology and its battery pack is actually quite serviceable.

While I know everyone loves to toot the Tesla horn the real problem that hit the other car makers was GM. GM because showed what having established relationship with suppliers and a wealth of in house knowledge can do in short order. GM is bringing a 200+ mile range EV to the market THIS YEAR, not late 2017, 2018 or whenever.

That car, the Bolt, has basically obsoleted every sub 100 and even sub 120 range EV over night. GM's supposed battery costs are lower than projections from Tesla's gigafactory

Is it a GM car or is it an LG car? From Wikipedia:

The battery, motor, drive unit will be manufactured at LG, Incheon, South Korea

Are iPhones Qualcomm phones because they use a Qualcomm radio?

I think the problem is the needs for the Fun To Drive market and the Driving Appliance market have separated so much that you can't fit both markets into a single model anymore. Through the E46 era (early 2000s) you could have a single car which you would drive to work and which you could take to a track. The E90 (late 2000s), and rapidly increasing into the F30s (2010s), people want so many comfort, automation, and entertainment features in their Driving Appliances that would cause any Fun To Drive buyer to immediately reject the car out of hand. The Driving Appliance market is vastly larger than the Fun To Drive market, so it's clear where you're going to focus the bulk of your effort.

I think we're shortly going to reach a point where driving enthusiasts have to have two vehicles. One to drive on the roads and one to drive for fun. I've already reached that point, myself. I won't own any vehicle newer than the early 2010s unless it is fully self-driving.

> I won't own any vehicle newer than the early 2010s unless it is fully self-driving.

Fiesta ST. 2013 (14?) and oodles of fun.

full disclosure: it's my "fun on weekends" car.

Deal killers: fewer than 3 pedals; any touch screen controls; any loading screens. It is incredibly hard to find a fun, modern car that avoids all of those deal killers.

Mini Cooper S

Golf GTI

I've owned a single 335 since 2009. It drives/handles beautifully. It's hard to describe being able to feel the surface of the road through the suspension and into steering wheel. I've driven the new ones and feel less in control and that special road feel is gone. My 3's interior is certainly spartan, but well made. After 6 years of ownership on crappy Midwestern roads, my interior is still solid without a single squeak or rattle. The new one's I've driven look like "cheap fancy" to me, and can imagine all that plastic is going to warp into a squeaky rattly mess after a few years. I've already decided my next vehicle will be a Tesla.

That's exactly my experience as well. I transitioned from a 2007 335 to a 2013 335i because I wanted new tech and warranty. But I miss the old car's driving dynamics every single day. I'm getting a M3 next because it's been my highschool dream car and still retains a bit of that BMW magic, but the one after next? Probably a Model S for daily with a Porsche Boxster for weekend fun.

There was an inflection point with the E46 3er when sales passed those of the Ford Mondeo. The formerly boring-brand Ford is now seen as the niche interest for the manager-with-family who likes a little driving excitement and the BMW is a standard rep mobile!

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