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Comment by maratd | Hacker News Reader

> but 1- it doesn't compare to what, for example, black or chinese people or native americans suffered historically

And that doesn't compare to what Jews went through 50 years ago. What's your point? There's always a bigger sob story around the corner. You deal with it and move on. The moving on part is important.

> whereas prejudice against "people of color" is still very much alive.

And that prejudice will amplify if you continue treating people of color differently. By providing special privileges to make up for the sins of the past, you are fomenting racism today. Every white guy who didn't get a job because of the color of his skin is now a newly minted racist. And while he really should direct his ire toward misguided leftists, in the end, he'll blame the person of color instead ... which is sad.

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    And that prejudice will amplify if you continue treating people of color differently.

Recognizing unjust treatment and inequality is not "treating people differently."

Equality is the goal; recognizing inequality is part of how we get there.

> Equality is the goal

That's your goal. I don't share it.

I want equal opportunity, not equal outcome. We will never have equal outcome because we're all different and that's a good thing.

And I don't care if you're disadvantaged because of a thousand different reasons. None of us are born equal. We have no control over that.

What we can do is make sure that the bar is the same for everyone. That's the only equality I'm interested in.

> recognizing inequality is part of how we get there

That is a terrible approach because you have no idea if the inequality arose out of unjustified discrimination, innate differences in talent, effort invested, or a thousand other things.

I would much rather focus on making sure that the bar is set to the same height for everyone, regardless of color, sex, age, ethnicity, religion, or any other damned thing people decide to group themselves or others by.

> I want equal opportunity, not equal outcome

I should have been more specific, but if it makes you feel any better: I did mean "equal opportunity" and not "equal outcome."

Why did you write something so vitriolic based on an ambiguity? But ultimately, yes, my fault for being ambiguous.

The point is that he was saying that groups of white people had the same as people of color, and that's not true. They had it bad, but it's not remotely comparable.

Ever heard of a thing called the Holocaust? Or the purges in the Soviet Union or any other ex-communist country?

We pretended that institutional racism wasn't sown into the fabric of our society for decades and did nothing about it. The net effect is that nothing changed for minorities, because we've proven that we won't change our behavior without incentives.

> And that prejudice will amplify if you continue treating people of color differently.

Do you have a source for this? Such policy has real concrete effects with statistics you can point to. You can see the real positive effect it has on certain groups of people.

The only effect on white people I've seen documented is that racists have another bullet point on their long list of talking points to stir up their voter base. It doesn't bother normal people.

As a potential candidate, if you're going home and blaming affirmative action for the reason you didn't get hired, it says a lot about the way you think. Mainly, that you blame other people for your problems, specifically minorities, which is an odd conclusion to come to.

> Do you have a source for this?

Yeah. It's called deductive reasoning.

You scream about the evils of racism and what harm it's done to our society ... and your solution is more racism, just in the opposite direction? Smart.

How about no racism at all? I think that's better.

> Mainly, that you blame other people for your problems, specifically minorities, which is an odd conclusion to come to.

It is an absolutely odd conclusion to come to. It would make more sense to blame people like you. Unfortunately, human beings aren't purely logical and when they see another person at the job they should have had ... they blame that person, rather than the policy that put them there.

What's worse, nobody knows if that policy is at fault or not ... so people assume that they got fucked over, because it's always easier to blame someone else than yourself. So you've now created a society that resents success, because it's assumed that success only comes to the privileged classes like minorities, etc, rather than to those who earned it.

Congrats on making a full circle.

I've never personally experienced something like affirmative action holding me back, and I'm not advocating people blame that system. I am all for taking personal responsibility for _everything_ you have to deal with in life (not just race or finances, every potential setback that prevents you from living the happy life you want).

I will say, though, that it doesn't seem completely crazy to be angry at a system that is purposely favoring people with a race other than yours. I'm not asian, but I have heard that asians get the most points "docked" from them automatically when applying to colleges because asians study harder/do better on tests in general. It's not just that certain racists think that, it's that it's literally built into the system. If you study really hard despite a poor upbringing and get an A- on a test, and then know that it really only counts for a "B" for other races (even those that grew up in rich families with personal tutors), that wouldn't bother you even a little?

And the sentiment you mention in your last sentence goes both ways. Lots of non-white people complain about not getting a job or otherwise not getting opportunities because of their race. And that's when there isn't an actual documented system in place that enforces it! I am sure some of them are absolutely right, but it's unlikely all of them are.

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