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Comment by rdtsc | Hacker News Reader

I almost drowned in the ocean. Yeah it didn't look like drowning. It would have looked like someone bobbing up and down, maybe diving to look under water. There were people on the beach sunbathing and playing, they didn't notice. My wife saw and understood what was happening and yelled for help. So she saved my life.

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I lifeguarded a beach with quite big waves for a few summers. It's really hard to see people swimming in the sea, especially when they go out past the waves. We used to call people back in if they looked like they weren't strong sea swimmers. It makes you feel bad stopping people having fun in the sea. But that job used to scare the shit out of me. So easy to lose sight of someone.

I don't know what happened to you, but I suspect a combination of the effort of swimming in moving water, it's much more effort than in a pool. Coupled with the constant slapping of chop in your face meaning you need to really lift your head up high to breathe... yeah... it's scary. Glad you got out ok.

Worst part of that job was when you count the kids, 4 in that group, 5 in that group ... now there's only 3 in that group. Where did that other person go?

It's strange to me that the job of a lifeguard is entrusted to teenagers across USA, where I'm sure most of them do not receive any rigorous training in matters like these and the majority of them do not look like they'd be strong enough to save a person anyway.

At no point have they made me feel safer for being there, unless they're doing it as their full time job.

My friends who were lifeguards received pretty thorough training, I think.

The certificate takes 6 months of study and includes a full first aid education, as well as water-specific first aid, what does drowning look like, how to swim against a rip tide, how to tow someone who is either dead weight or thrashing or larger than yourself. They have to be able to swim 1 km with a time limit. They have frequent training drills and go for refresher courses every year or two. And the pay is quite a bit better than normal kid jobs pay. Think 10-12 per hour for a grocery store or fast food job, and 17-19 per hour for lifeguarding.

I only know two or three friends who have done it, but they are fairly impressive people, to me. I can't speak for all lifeguards of course, but I always felt pretty happy with the supervision of my 17 year old friend Michelle, for example, when the 6 kids in my care at summer camp were splashing in the lake.

I think they are doing quite a good job considering the vigilance it takes. The beach near me has mostly teenagers lifeguarding, and there has been 30k rescues over the years, with zero deaths while lifeguards were on duty. I do not hear of many drownings anywhere with lifeguards on.

I imagine it depends on the pool and beach area. Most notably, the older management staff that overlook the lifeguards.

Anectdotal, but I was a lifeguard in my Highschool years nearly 2 decades ago. Scrawny at 5'9 140 lbs. However, we spent a lot of time training and practicing rescuing people. We made sure all our staff could individually rescue someone that is 250 lbs+ across the pool, tread water holding bricks over our heads and swim respectably fast, trained how to scan the pool so that there are overlapping eyes and no blind spots on each area. We were all CPR certified (however we deemed the lifeguarding a failure if you've already needed to resort to CPR due to drowning). We spent hours practicing loading a victim with a spinal injury in water onto a backboard (spinal backboard procedures), and even had EMS stop by to train us on first aid. Refreshers on procedures and training were done quarterly.

When not at the side of the pool, we're cleaning bathrooms. Good times for minimum wage. Even saved a couple of kids that wandered too far off into the deep end during summer. No one even noticed they were drowning.

I hope at least some of this provides you with some trust to your local lifeguards even if they are young.

Perhaps I was just uninformed.

If those are indeed requirements even for part time lifeguards, then it makes me feel much safer.

At my local pool in the UK they are picked from the swimming team. When I was in the team (many moons ago) we were doing 60 laps for a warm up. That's about a mile. So they are good, strong swimmers.

Interestingly CPR success rate is really low (around 20% I seem to remember.) We're all told that. After a couple of breaths into the patient, if they don't start coughing up water and sit up, then you're not likely to save them. So the qualifications don't matter so much as speed, strength and attention.

Teenagers have better vision and are typically in better shape.

Lifeguards are sort of a courtesy.

You should be the first one responsible for your own safety when going out swimming.

I used to swim in rivers with no supervision, and obviously I needed to be very careful not to get myself into a situation.

I don't think many ocean swimmers know how dangerous the ocean is (to judge from people's accounts here and other times this issue has come up). So many people might not be able to be responsible in the way you suggest.

I wonder if there's sometimes a risk compensation problem from the presence of lifeguards -- forms of "I don't need to be so careful, the lifeguard would save me".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard (less directly applicable, but kinda)

You've been downvoted, not sure why. But this is true. Lifeguards mainly tell people not to go in where it is dangerous.

Like I said in my previous comment, if you get into trouble it is very hard to see you let alone get out to you and save the day. You are responsible for your own safety.

We used to red flag the beach (no one in the water apart from local surfers) then at the end of the day take the flags down and get ready to go home. Every time some idiot would go in for a swim... as if the flag was the thing that made the sea dangerous.

If you go in the sea, be prepared.

It's beyond trivial to search the web for the requirements to be a certified lifeguard in the US.

Saving someone who is drowning isn't about strength, it's about technique.

Lifeguarding isn't taken seriously in America. Go to Australia, there are lifesaving clubs all over the place, kids join them and learn this stuff early on.

Same in the UK, we have kids learning about the sea and rescue at 7 years old. By 16 they are fit, strong and qualified.

But 99% of the job is prevention.

What I wonder is, if you don't have any control over your own movements anymore, how likely are you to also drown the person that is trying to save you? Is that something that can happen?

Yes, very likely.

You'll notice that lifeguards usually approach from behind the person that needs rescue. The standard response is to grab anything that can help the drowning person stay afloat, which includes the rescuer.

Likely. The person who saved me, was yelling at me to turn around with the back towards them so me flailing and grabbing them won't pull them down. I could hear them, yet I could not do what they were telling me. It happened eventually, but yeah I imagine it would be a problem.

Yes. I just finished Rescue Diver certification and there's a whole section on what to do when confronted with a panicked diver. Generally speaking, when people panic, they won't listen to instructions, will do nonsensical things (like not inflate their BCD which would keep them afloat) and try to use anything and anyone as an island to keep themselves up. There's a bunch of techniques we're trained on but in general, you should approach them from behind and be prepared to kick off in order to save yourself if they come after you.

Quite likely. I nearly drowned once at sea and my friend came out to get me but I kept dragging him under because I literally had no energy left to do anything, let alone the brain power to coordinate my movements. Fortunately he was a very strong swimmer and so we made it back in one piece.

From what I've read, it can be common practice to punch the drowning person to stun them and stop flailing limbs.

The simplest way to get a drowning person off you is to go down. With your arms at your sides, push up, like the reverse of when you're trying to lunge out of the water. As soon as the drowning person's head goes below water they will let go and you can come back for another attempt.

Don't punch them, it's less effective and can knock them unconscious, which can complicate the rescue.

Source: was a trained and certified lifeguard and swim teacher in my teens.

Better source than mine, listen to this guy!

I was taught to grab a handful anywhere (excepting the elbow), and pinch hard. Drowning is bad enough without adding a concussion to it, and possibly injuring your own hand.

Heh, not trying to knock them unconscious with a blow to the head, but to surprise them (like pinching would).

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