Comment by sandisk5 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sandisk5 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

> It also means that the main designer of the Scala language is not working on Scala

No, it means that person is not working only on Scala, or rather the current implementation of Scala. People can work on multiple projects over the course of a year/years.

> on a language that will "eventually" become the future of Scala

You changed "Is it the future Scala? Yes, it will be - eventually" (I think can best be reworded "eventually be the future Scala") to "eventually become the future of Scala." To me, those have different connotations. The former means that it's not finished yet, but when it is it will be the base of Scala at that time. The latter implies, to me, that at some time in the future this will be the base of Scala at some time further in the future.

> which means that, right now, dotty is not the future of Scala

And here's where that different meaning leads you wrong. dotty is the future of Scala right now, but it's not that future Scala yet.

> A lot of very smart people seem to be very excited about that, I can't help but find it ominous.

People are generally happy to have to the creator of something they like working on its future.

Scala is being maintained. Improvements and releases are being made in the meantime. More than one person can work on Scala, and a single person can work on multiple aspects of Scala. Big changes like dotty are being carefully planned and executed at the same time other changes are made. People are excited that Scala is continuing to evolve and becoming a better language, and that a beloved innovator/creator is playing a significant role in that.

Right, yes, I read "the future of Scala" but that isn't what it said at all. My mistake entirely, you're absolutely correct.

On the other hand, I stand by my "not working on Scala" comment. This is based on commit history, which I admit might not give the whole picture but is certainly a fairly strong indication: https://github.com/scala/scala/graphs/contributors Odersky's activity has drastically diminished towards the end of 2012, with his last Scala commit in July, 2014.

I've no issue with him doing exactly what he wishes, he owes the community (or at least, me) absolutely nothing and if he's more excited to work on Dotty than on Scala, then there is no doubt that's what he should be doing. My concern is that the more I look at Dotty, the more it looks like a very promising language that looks a lot like Scala, but that adds and removes some features to it - that is to say, not actually Scala. I've no trouble imagining a future where the differences grow enough that they stay / become entirely distinct, and seeing a large chunk of the brains behind Scala busy on Dotty doesn't feel me with confidence in the former's future.

I really do not see the problem with this. Odersky oversees a team of very capable people he trusts to work on the current Scala version, while he works on the future. He is the father of Scala, but please do not underestimate the brilliant people that are actively working on Scala now, allowing him to develop the bleeding edge.

Scala 2.12 would be taking a lot longer and delivering a lot less than Scala 2.11 even if it were on schedule (which it isn't, and there's been no official comment on what the new schedule is). I think the focus of 2.12 is entirely wrong (for my use cases it brings no new features to the table, and since it drops Android support, it's actually a regression compared to 2.11), and I think important features (better syntax for type lambdas, a way to express sum types without extraneous subtypes) are being delayed for too long if they're being delayed until Dotty.

You're misreading my comment. What bothers me is not that the "father of Scala" is working on the future of Scala, but that he's working on something that I fear might become another language altogether.

I'm not saying Scala is in bad hands or a dead language. But when a project's creator looses interest and moves to different things, well, it's usually not the best sign for that project. And again, I'm not saying that this is happening right now, or even that it necessarily will, just that Dotty definitely has the potential of leading to that situation.

> I'm not saying Scala is in bad hands or a dead language. But when a project's creator looses interest and moves to different things, well, it's usually not the best sign for that project.

"looses interest" ... "moves to different things" ... WTF? How can people come up with this FUD?

Scala2 and Dotty are two dialects of the same language, just as ScalaJS and Scala Native are dialects of the language.

Keep calm and carry on.

Working on the next major version Scala (3.0) != "looses interest" in Scala.

If the language requires a single specific person to be involved so it can move forward, that they are choosing to spend their time on something you deem not the best way to advance the language, then that's actually the lesser of a few problems. Is the bus number of this project really one? If not, then it doesn't really matter what he chooses to spend his time on.

My english is obviously not as fluent as I thought it was. None of this was meant to be implied by my comments. I have no opinion on what the best way to advance Scala might be, nor am I even qualified to hold such an opinion. I have no idea whether Odersky's continued involvement with the language is needed or even desirable. I've no concept how much work is being done on Scala - none whatsoever? more than I could possibly imagine? probably somewhere in the middle.

What I said, and mean as my opinion and not an absolute truth, is that a non-insignificant chunk of the brains that used to work on Scala now seems to be busy on Dotty, and that the resulting work, amazing though it may be, might not make it back to Scala.

I have nothing to back this opinion up. Everybody involved with Dotty seems absolutely committed to it being the future Scala, and I've no reason to believe they're not in earnest. But I can't take the switch for granted until it's happened.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com