Comment by justinator | Hacker News Reader

Comment by justinator | Hacker News Reader

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I'm a, to put it lightly, a cycling enthusiast.

I bet this means that people don't know how to get from A to B on a bicycle, rather than, you know, being able to pedal a bicycle in a straight line, and keep the thing upright.

For example: which streets are the best to take? What's legal/illegal to do? (sidewalks OK? "I DON'T KNOW? I'M SCARED TO RIDE ON THE ROAD/NOT ON THE ROAD") Where do I lock up this thing? What happens at night - do I need lights? What kind of light? What do I do if it start raining? Oh no? What do I do about my wheel - the tires not holding air!

These are topics not always taught to you... ever by... anyone. Especially the legal aspects of bicycle rights on the road. That leads to all sorts of arguments about what bikes can/cannot do and creates a horrible opposing relationship with cyclists and other road users. As a motorist, if you don't ride a bike as an adult, you may have NO idea what a cyclist is allowed to do on the road, but the same can be said about a cyclist that's JUST getting into riding a bike. They'll make all sorts of mistakes, and put themselves in bad situations, often angering other users of the road. How long is that going to last, until that bike is back in the back of the garage?

What's the solution? Seek out a support group of cyclists to help you.

I'm kind of surprised. I live in France and spent my time growing up in the countryside. I was aware of common cycling regulations, all the do and don't, by the time I was in 5th grade.

I know biking in a city is very different from biking on a road in the middle of nowhere. And, even I, prefer to avoid crowded circulations and difficult crossings, because those other road users are pesky assholes (at least in Paris) when it comes to sharing anything with pedestrians, cyclists, or even other motorized vehicles. Kudos to cyclists support groups!

When I rode in France - once on a two-month tour through the country, and once living in Paris, I was incredibly shocked at how aware motorists were to cyclists. Motorists would drive fast around me, but I wasn't worried that their intentions were maligned. Coming back to the States, and I had to readapt to being much more defensive.

In short: it's just embedded in the French culture. France has le Tour, we have football.

Switzerland takes this to a whole 'nother level, saying nothing about the Netherlands, Denmark, etc.

In the States, I feel very much like an enemy on the road. I mean, I'm just riding my bike to work.

I can't agree with this sentiment enough, you have to ride defensively on the road, you're seen as a second class citizen, and drivers don't act with the same respect as they do other cars. However, I've never lived in France so I have nothing to compare to.

It's essentially class warfare, when cars are seen as a symbol of wealth, status and mobility. It's not car vs. bike. It's the status quo vs. a competing idea that, if it takes root, unearths a value system based on owning and using an expensive personal item that devalues precipitously as soon as it's driven off the lot, adds a hefty environmental cost, etc: the automobile. And that upheaval is going to cost powerful people money.

Also look at: public transportation.

It's no wonder that higher economic mobility people have chosen essentially a private town car company (or at least a virtual one, that undermines things like workers rights) to replace personal car ownership (at least partly so) and not a bicycle or public transportation. The illusion of the status quo is still there - except that it's enhanced, as you're paying a premium for someone else to do the stressful work for you.

As an American that has explored Europe, it's just not the same thing. Trains are amazing, people flaunting wealth by buying enormous cars is seen as a faux pas. City centers are turning into car-free zones. Being simply a pedestriann isn't see as a backwards thing. Cycling is taken much more seriously and things like safety regulations and road-side checks are a Thing.

This extensive list of skills is exactly why cycling is a lifestyle choice/hobby, not an effective method of transportation.

Car ownership isn't much better.

Lyft/Uber? I tap a button, get in the car, then appear at my destination.

I don't have to spend mental cycles on accidents, vehicle failures, weather, navigation, insurance, licensing, fuel, equipment, tiredness, sobriety, clothing, locks, road laws, time of day, road debris, other road users, parking, safety of my vehicle when I'm not around, maintenance, vehicle condition and cleanliness, transportation politics, etc.

Instead, I can live my life. It's actually quite liberating.

> This extensive list of skills is exactly why cycling is > a lifestyle choice/hobby, not an effective method of > transportation. > > Car ownership isn't much better.

But that's it, isn't it? There's an investment in time/energy you have to make. Is the investment worth it for you?

> Instead, I can live my life. It's actually quite liberating.

For me, being car-free is very liberating. There's just more pluses to using a bike for my primary transportation.

Where have you lived that cycling is not an effective method of transportation? All of your arguments can be exactly adapted for Uber/Lyft, and even if I were to do that it doesn't mean ride sharing is an ineffective method of transportation.

I assure you in MOST of the rest of the world cycling is a very effective method of transportation.

Don't know where the parent is from but I live in a largish Canadian city. Using a bike for primary travel is not viable except for short leisure/weekend errands. I even live in the part of town where biking would be the most viable.

1) the city isn't built for biking. It's long distances between where people work and their homes. Not many live downtown like other large cities. 2) you can only do it for six months of the year. The other six are too cold.

Why is it not viable?

In northern Ohio bicycling all year is becoming more practical as there is less snow lately. Parts of Canada may have a lot more snow and severe cold.

The weather would be the main one.

Do I understand you correctly that you _only_ get around via Uber/Lyft? That seems expensive or at the least, very boring because you don't get out much.

Really, I think the minimum knowledge needed to use a bike for transportation is quite small. Walk into a local bike shop, list your needs/abilities, pay money, and start riding a bike. When you stop, use the u-lock they gave you to lock up the frame. Every week, put some air in the tire and recharge your lights. If something breaks, take it back to the shop.

>Do I understand you correctly that you _only_ get around via Uber/Lyft?

Back in Europe at least, I know several of people who use taxis for all their getting around -- with the occasional subway ride thrown in.

And those are people that get around a lot, though that's mostly true for above a certain income source and usually on creative professions (directors, composers, journalists, etc. -- kind of like people whose work doesn't necessitate commuting every day to some office, and who couldn't afford a 24/7 personal chauffeur, but could still pay for 2-5 taxi rides per day).

Uber/Lyft, aircraft, and walking for short distances, yes. I realize now that I live in very walkable areas, so I have a little more variety available than people in the suburbs.

That said, this post was intended to encourage people to think about the future of transportation, not saying that everyone should immediately switch to Lyft/Uber.

Car/bike ownership will certainly make sense for some people for quite some time, even after we have fully autonomous vehicles. But I maintain that cycling is more recreation than an effective method of everyday transportation, and it is frustrating to see the biking contingent pushing it as a transportation option to encourage public expenditure on their recreational needs.

> This extensive list of skills is exactly why cycling is a lifestyle choice/hobby, not an effective method of transportation. > Car ownership isn't much better.

I suspect the list for car ownership would look much longer, actually. It's just that the skills necessary for car ownership are taught much more effectively because of the prevalence of driving in our society.

> This extensive list of skills is exactly why cycling is a lifestyle choice/hobby, not an effective method of transportation.

I take it you've never been to Denmark. I don't think I know of anyone who doesn't own one or more, young or old.

The only means of transportation that is more effective is public transportation here.

The parent poster was saying bikes are less likely to get stolen in LA because nobody knows how to ride--I don't think that's true at all. Most people who steal bikes just want to sell it for money. I heard SF had a huge bike theft problem and was working to reduce stolen bikes in the second-hand market instead of attacking thefts directly. They also added a stolen bike registry to make recovery more seamless. Maybe LA has something similar and that's reducing thefts? I still see evidence of bike thefts in LA (parts of bikes or empty chains locked to things).

More to your point, Los Angeles has free bike safety courses for varying levels all over town. They start with "learn to ride," "interested in riding a bike for daily trips, but are concerned about safety," and "confident city cycling." I think they also give out free safety equipment like helmets, lights, and reflectors.

In the UK we have cycling proficiency tests available at most schools, which teach you a lot of the basics.

That's awesome, and I'm glad to hear it. For me, it was first taught in after-school clubs (bicycle club!). I can't thank the local bike shop enough for pointing me in the right direction.

As an adult, I joined a lot of social circles that centered around having fun, and riding bikes. I also got into things like Critical Mass, and the local bike messenger racing scene. It felt like we were all helping each other to survive out there. A lot has changed in 10 years, and I'm very grateful for that. Just having a public bike sharing program present and very easy to access has really changed people's perceptions.

When I was a kid in the USA (Torrance, CA which is in Los Angeles County) the police came to our elementary school once a year for a bicycle information day, where they'd talk about bike safety rules and even had a little rolling road to test your brakes on. Most of my friends rode their bikes to school. So it doesn't seem completely unheard of.

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