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Comment by Sir_Substance | Hacker News Reader

>Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing, so people press both surfaces in confusion.

If you'd ever touched one of these (or read the article properly), you'd know it provides a tactile mirror to the sound the button is playing, telling deaf people when to cross.

If I'm listening to music I often stick my thumb over it even though I'm not deaf, so I don't have to keep looking at the light to see when I can cross. The top of the button case is just the right size to rest your palm on it and allow your thumb to drop down and rest on the popper plate.

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If you need to rest your hand on it or read an article, to understand how it works, that's a major fail in the design.

If it's designed for blind people, I don't think visually signaling its function is necessarily a great option (though to be fair, it would at least allow sighted people to point out the device to their blind friends).

Over 90% of people are not blind. Why deprive them of extra information they are able to use? And even if we wanted, reducing everyone to blind person's abilities won't work: If there are 5 people waiting for the same traffic light they can't all hold their finger on the button at the same time.

Sighted people can see the (much more convenient) lighted sign that says "cross/don't cross". A tactile device is unnecessary for those people, and it doesn't really matter if they know that it exists or what it is for. As such, I would say the biggest design priority with respect to the sighted majority would be to make sure it's not actively confusing (i.e. it won't be mistaken for the cross button), and visual cues as to its purpose would be above and beyond.

I know I'm only one (Australian) person, but I've known this for as long as I can remember and have interacted with them. I've never noticed people pressing it in confusion, but I do the same thing where I touch it if I've got headphones in so I know when it turns green.

>If you need to rest your hand on it ... to understand how it works, that's a major fail in the design.

It's literally a tactile indicator. Very intuitive by feel(which is its purpose).

> telling deaf people when to cross.

Not blind people? In the UK the boxes have a spinner underneath. (So please never stick your gum under the box) and the spinner is for blind people who can't see the lights. Not all lights have sounders on.

"Interestingly, the cones still aren't built into the boxes and have to be retro-fitted."

Retrofitted at the expense of the taxpayer, because Radix won't/can't license the technology to the manufacturers of the box itself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881

Blind people can hear the sound it makes.

They don't all (in the UK) make a sound. In particular, crossings where there are multiple light controlled traffic streams near to each other will have no audible signal to prevent the problem - mentioned up thread - of zombie pedestrians (like me) walking into moving traffic at the prompting of an adjacent crossing signal. Crossings in residential areas will either not have an audible signal or will have an audible signal only between certain hours. The one outside my flat for example stops bleeping at 8PM and doesn't resume until 6AM.

Source : when you are initially registered blind in the UK a rehab officer comes round and explains all the workings, including the largely unknown spinner on the underside of the switch box. And yes, please don't stick gum there.

>They don't all (in the UK) make a sound.

But this is about the design of an Australian button, and the Australian button we are talking about always makes sound.

The GP to which you are replying is about UK specific signalling.

Can you not read?

I said the lozenge was to assist deaf people. DanBC asked for a clarification that I meant deaf people rather than not blind people, and cross-compared to a UK pedestrian button. I clarified that blind people can hear the sound that Australian buttons make.

You missed the point entirely, downvoted my post and started talking about how not all UK buttons make sound.

That's nice, but not what everyone else was talking about. (twit)

> Can you not read?

Actually I find it profoundly challenging but usually rewarding enough to justify the effort. Usually.

One day I shall write a short guide titled 'Rhetorical Questions : how might we answer them?'. 'Can you [not] X' will be chapter 2. Prize of one splendid upvote for anyone who can guess the title of chapter 1.

"Chapter 1: What is a rhetorical question?"?

All crossings have lights.

Not all crossings have sounders.

Deaf people can always see the lights. Blind people can't always hear the sounders.

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