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Comment by ftrflyr | Hacker News Reader

I drink once in my life. When I was 20. Why? I was interested in what being drunk felt like from a scientific perspective. Upon drinking all the liquor I could find in the house, the room began to spin and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control so I found the nearest couch and passed out.

I often wonder if I am programmed differently than other people. Peer pressure has never really had any effect on me. When people would try to convince me to drink, I would grab a root beer and relish in the joy of drinking something that not only tastes great (not having to acquire a taste for) but did not result in a loss of my inhibitions. (Yes, I am well aware of the argument that sugar and soda are probably far worse than occasionally drinking).

Growing up I often pondered the reasons why people begin drinking: Peer pressure, wanting to fit in, the need to feel cool, etc. None of these things every pushed me in the direction of needing to drink.

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> Upon drinking all the liquor I could find in the house, the room began to spin and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control so I found the nearest couch and passed out.

I don't know that evaluating drinking alcohol by getting hammered is really going to lead to a reasonable analysis. Most alcohol consumption is within reason.

> I often wonder if I am programmed differently than other people. Peer pressure has never really had any effect on me. When people would try to convince me to drink, I would grab a root beer and relish in the joy of drinking something that not only tastes great (not having to acquire a taste for) but did not result in a loss of my inhibitions.

It sounds like it has more of an effect on you than you realize, just in the opposite direction. You come across as feeling superior for your choice to not drink alcohol and instead "drink things that taste great" (implying that people drink alcoholic beverages despite disliking the taste) and that "don't result in a loss of inhibitions" (as if this is universally a bad thing). Honestly, it sounds like you started out with your conclusions (alcohol is bad/dumb/whatever) and went out in search of evidence supporting that conclusion ("drinking all the liquor I could find in the house").

People drink alcohol for a variety of reasons. Peer pressure, wanting to fit in, and feeling cool plays roughly zero part in it once you get past high school. People enjoy the flavor of cocktails, liquors, beer, wine, and other alcoholic beverages. People enjoy the "social lubricant" effect of moderate consumption. And yes, people think it's fun to get drunk (news flash: it is, at times!).

If you don't want to drink or don't enjoy drinking, good for you. Do your own thing. But damn do you come across as feeling better than others for making that choice.

> If you don't want to drink or don't enjoy drinking, good for you. Do your own thing. But damn do you come across as feeling better than others for making that choice.

While I won't argue your other points, I will push back a bit on the comment above. Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care?

If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere in my expressing MY THOUGHTS did I make an attack on anyone, then that is your prerogative. You make some wild accusations based on me explaining an experience that is personal to me. While I am not sorry you took what I said in a negative light, it does shed light on how you view yourself as a person and others who don't agree with your line of thinking.I wish you the best in you finding who you are.

(edit) Apparently, some of you don't like my comment. Let me clean it up a bit for those downvoters.

It seems to me that people can be more apt to try to read someone's intent in writing something - beyond what the words convey directly.

Re-reading your original post, I can see why - absent the characteristics GP ascribed you - it would be really upsetting to be accused of it.

Your entire text can be read either as a genuine curiosity and attempt to get answered, or condescending humblebrag. And either one has the potential to be accurate.

Some subset of people tend to assume that it's the latter when they run into something that can be read like that. I often do too - I think it's that I sometimes find it hard to understand how someone could be writing in public forms (the internet no less) and not be aware of this.

And now that I've written it out, Ive become aware how ridiculous a basis that is. You can be aware that it's annoying when someone taps their foot on the floor, without quite being aware that you're doing it too. Someone points it out to you, you realize it, stop, and start again five minutes later.

All that said... I could still go either way. Though thinking this through has led me to the conclusion that in the future, I'll just ask.

So whichever it is in your case, I appreciate that the discussion prompted by your post gave me a chance to think about this...

> Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere in my expressing MY THOUGHTS did I make an attack on anyone, then that is your prerogative.

I don't care. And I didn't mean this to be a personal attack. Maybe you didn't mean it to come across the way I read it. Maybe you don't feel smugly superior to people who drink. But as written, your message came across (to me, and I'm guessing to those who upvoted me) the way I presented it.

At the very least, you grossly misrepresent the motives of people who drink as being primarily driven by peer pressure and a desire to conform. And your "experiment" of "drink everything in the house" comes across as misguided at best, and as chasing evidence in support of your preconceived notions at worst.

Given that, are you really so surprised that people took umbrage?

> people took umbrage?

People no. You, yes. Please don't speak for other people.

> you grossly misrepresent the motives of people who drink

I do? I offered my OPINION on why I believe people drink. What qualifies me to give such an opinion?

10+ years as a bartender (from dive bars to high-end restaurants - the last being Spiaggia in Chicago). During that time, I continued to further my understanding of why people drink. Asking clients and gaining deeper knowledge. Let me ask you...why did you start drinking? Yes, you can point out that after high school...blah, blah, blah. I am not speaking to the fact that those have a choice once they reach an age where they are less pressured into doing things they have less control over at a younger age. You seemed to have completely missed the point of the article and my commenting an experience where peer pressure has not affected me.

So yes, I would say I am qualified to make statements not only about my personal experiences (those of which NEVER supported a position for or against drinking). You seemed to have done that for me.

> "experiment" of "drink everything in the house" comes across as misguided at best

Misguided at best? You are grasping at straws now.

> preconceived notions at worst

At worst? Let's put this into context.

Whether or not I develop an opinion before or after an experiment doesn't predict the outcome of that experiment. That is like saying because I heard about how bad heroin was growing up and tried it then...what exactly? What are you trying to say exactly? Because as far as I can tell, you are saying a whole lot without actually saying anything.

> 10+ years as a bartender

> Only drank once at 20, proceeded to get blackout drunk.

And?

You have touched on an exposed nerve, to eschew such a fundamental past-time for many. The lack of prosody in the comm allows readers to fill the void of inflection to match their expectations, don't take it personal. Just don't say 'I don't watch TV' or there may be pitchforks & ropes in your future.

Oh my god this is such a dumb reply. I was pointing out that it's pretty unbelievable that you would be a bartender for 10 years and only have had a drink (or in OP's case gotten blackout drunk) once in your life.

I would hate to order a drink from someone like that. Follow a formula for a cocktail all you want, you should still know what it tastes like. It's like a patisserie chef who has only ever eaten one cannoli.

Perhaps he is evaluating your assessment of drinking, and finding that you possibly have other-than-logical reasons for your conclusion? (Not that I agree.)

>Growing up I often pondered the reasons why people begin drinking: Peer pressure, wanting to fit in, the need to feel cool, etc. None of these things every pushed me in the direction of needing to drink.

None of these are the reason most people drink. They would all be bad reasons to drink. You are saying we drink for bad reasons. You make a caricature of drinking (all the booze in the house) and say that's why you know better. The gist is that you missed the target on why others do something, and imply that you, scientifically, are wiser for it (you're drinks not only taste better than ours, they don't make you lose your inhibitions!).

> None of these are the reason most people drink.

Then what are the reasons for people wanting to drink? I am talking about that first time someone drinks.

I'm not a naturally extroverted person, but when I drink I trend more towards that personality type. I spend less time overanalyzing things and I am more engaged with the people around me. In a way it "dumbs me down" and makes me think a bit less, which makes me more social, whereas the completely sober me would sit there lost in my own thoughts.

Am I right to understand that you think you couldn't behave like this without alcohol?

Even if drugs may help in the short term to act ‚more open’ — everything you do when you're drunk is because of you and not caused by the drug!

Be concious and open and people will be open to you. The world around you is a mirror of yourself!

I've certainly given this plenty of thought. The idea of alcohol slowing my mind down is only appealing in social situations and I've never found drinking in and of itself to be enjoyable. I consider it a "social enhancement" -- and of course, there's certainly a point where it becomes a hinderance.

Interestingly enough, I've definitely found myself in the same social state without alcohol on occasion, but alcohol is the only method I know of that can reliably induce it. It's definitely a crutch I would love to discard but at the moment there's no replacement.

Is it only in the short term though? I think having positive social experiences while slightly drunk can improve your confidence in social situations in general.

The same pressure exists when you go to a cafe where you are expected to drink coffee. I don't like coffee, and I would rather not acquire a caffeine habit like most adults have, so I just drink steamed milk instead. It's pretty much the same thing anyway. Of course people will comment about how it makes me look weird, weak, etc. and insinuate that my business meetings would be more favorable if I drank coffee like I'm supposed to, like a man, etc.

Anyway, I used to not drink alcohol either. I would go to parties and everyone would drink but me and it would be pretty boring. I'd try to start intelligent conversation but it's pretty hard for that to happen in a large group environment. I would always have this feeling that I wasn't being productive or doing anything important.

Now I drink a bit, and it dulls me enough to just put on a happy face and enjoy random company. I become less goal-oriented, more harmless. People respond positively to it. It's like a form of self-handicapping, making everyone more harmless and approachable, which explains why people get so uncomfortable if you don't participate.

I don't even always have to drink, though, since I can just act like I've been drinking now. I still don't like the taste of hard alcohol, but some drinks taste good, like Bailey's Irish Cream or Mike's Hard Lemonade, or a Pina Colada or a White Russian or an Amaretto Sour.

If you were interested in the feeling of being drunk, drinking all the liquor you could find was the right procedure. If you were interested in why people drink, I would suggest that you used the wrong procedure.

The right procedure would be to get a glass of a good wine, or a good beer (not a mass-produced one) and sip it over dinner for about forty minutes, with friends. Depending on how big you are and how you personally metabolize alcohol, it would probably make you somewhat relaxed. And it would taste good. If it did not, you could find one that did.

In many cultures, alcohol is a food. It comes with side effects for sure, which are the sedation and decrease of inhibitions. The side effects are part of the enjoyment, but by no means are they the entire point of it.

> what being drunk felt like from a scientific perspective

I was interested in what being drunk felt like.

In another comment, I explain how I pursued further knowledge for "why people drink."

> In many cultures, alcohol is a food.

Completely agree. I live in East Africa when I am not in Chicago so I have first-hand experience on the role of alcohol in other cultures.

You might be programmed differently. I had a similar experience where I didn't start really drinking until I moved to Tokyo. Before that I tried for 2-3 months when I was 25, hated the taste, got headaches, stopped. A friend had me try some sweet cocktails which I enjoyed but not enough to drink regularly.

Moving to Toyko at 33 though introduced me to a different culture of drinking. AFAICT there's very little negative association with drinking in Japan Vs the USA. In the USA drinking, while socially acceptable is generally considered a vice. That doesn't seem true in Japan. As just one example the anime One Piece which is arguably targeted at young boys often has scenes of celebrating by drinking.

In any case, after many years here I do feel the peer pressure to socialize by drinking. People feel you aren't really participating if you don't. That doesn't mean I'll always drink. If I'm not feeling well or I drank too much the day before I might abstain but I'm consciously aware of the pressure / expectation. It helps no one drives so there's none of those issues.

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