Comment by ChoHag | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ChoHag | Hacker News Reader

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For reasons to tired too explain, I've been without a bank account (and therefore also credit/debit card) for a couple of months.

Nightmare. And scary as hell. And when it's not "official" c/d cards, its the shop points or the we're-not-a-bank-honest-guv quasi-debit-cards; it's impossible to catch a bus in London now without a tracking device^W^Woyster card.

Luckily for me I've only returned to this decadent backwater for a brief period before I head back to the glorious freedom (for once not a sarcasm in sight) of the ex-USSR. I feel disgusted that I had to write that.

Edit: And I think I'd like to add that despite the pain, I don't plan on getting any kind of card and may end up regaining a bank account but only as another means of converting my bitcoin to whatever the locals call cash.

Edit 2: And another thing. I tried to book a driving test in the UK. Wasn't able to do it online, even to book and pay later, without using a (non-government) bank account and (foreign) clearing house. Apparently a postal method is available. Our governments themselves are starting to require banks and credit/debit in order to interact with them.

In the United States, we're much more evolved: we don't just exclude people from government services, we also use innovative free market solutions to extract as much money from the "unbanked" as possible.

First, corporations only pay in direct deposit, check, or debit card. Of those three, only checks and debit cards can be used by the unbanked.

Secondly, while you can choose a check, the only method through which the unbanked can receive actual USD, you can't cash it very easily. However, the unbanked can't simply submit a photo of them through an app on their iPhone. They have to walk to "check cashing" businesses, which abound in our inner cities. These businesses exist by taking a cut of the paychecks of the people too poor to afford a proper bank.

Finally, there is the debit card option. Debit cards for pay were originally intended to eliminate predatory check cashing businesses. The cards were supposed to prevent the type of ridiculous costs imposed by check cashing businesses.

What occurred next was fairly predictable. Instead of a direct rate, companies charged small fees such as withdrawal fees, card replacement fees, and account fees, which accrue over time to roughly the same amount as going to the check cashers. Since the debit cards are often more convenient, many people choose that option, and the corporation takes the cut that used to go to the "unscrupulous" check cashers.

Later I'll tell you about bail bondsman and private prisons...

Regarding the bus: The system isn't perfect but the alternative is significant queues for counting change etc. I would suggest buying an Oyster card in cash and only topping it up in cash at corner shops etc.

Everywhere else in the UK you can still pay cash on buses. I'm slightly taken aback that London bus thinks cash is no longer worthy as every time I've been on a bus everyone pays cash or has weekly pass.

I pay cash nearly everywhere, card is for online only. I'll be a long way towards the back of the cashless adoption!

> I'm slightly taken aback that London bus thinks cash is no longer worthy as every time I've been on a bus everyone pays cash or has weekly pass.

Paying cash on the bus substantially slows down the bus. It makes sense to get rid of that transaction.

As a long-time passenger I'm OK with that, and I'd be even more OK with that if they remembered what customer fucking service was and brought back the conductors.

It's[+] my city and it can damn-well run the way I want it to. And that doesn't include 100% surveillance.

[+] Was, sadly. I like London. But it's shit.

Edit: Formatting.

Further edit: In fact I've lived in London most of my life and experience suggests a scenario which is distressingly common: Are you one of those cunts who tuts and sighs[ø] when a little old lady gets on the bus and takes (horror of horrors!) more than 10 seconds to pay her fare and find a seat? FUCK YOU. You don't deserve the air you breathe.

[ø] For those who live outside the M25, this is the London equivalent of a near-violent argument between strangers.

In Nottingham some buses allow cash but only exact change.

It's impossible. I just had a fight with a bus driver over this.

"Single to X please"

"No"

"I'll pay you, whether personally or your employer, an entire £10 (the fare's about £1.50) to take me to X"

"No"

"£20?"

"No. Go somewhere else (there was nowhere near this particular bus stop to buy one and I'd have missed that bus even if there was) and buy a card so we can follow you everywhere you go"

It's fucking scary. Or would be if I lived permanently in this shithole. Haha!

Recent events rather than persuading me to get bank account and card have entrenched my position not to get one. Things should not be like this and fuck any and everyone who's OK with it.

Is much of your angst directed at the pain one goes through opening a bank account in the UK?

That certainly doesn't help, but really it's just bureaucracy and you batton down the hatches and get it done.

Needing one, and it is really very close to need, is the concern. Interactions between me and my fellow citizens, or between me and my government (but I repeat myself), should not require a chaperone.

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