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Comment by jbigelow76 | Hacker News Reader

"something that many of their peers don't seem to have."

There you go passing judgement just like I did, assuming that isolated events you may see in interactions between your kid and other kids is indicative of them being raised in an environment lacking discipline or involvement.

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It's not really a huge secret that there are lots of families out there where the parents aren't very involved in their children's lives. I'm not passing judgement on those children at all, I'm simply making the point that maybe I should be as proactive as possible in shaping my children's attitudes and responses to social situations, rather than counting on other children at school to "socialize" them. I remember what it was like to be a kid in school, which is why the "Lord of the Flies" reference rang a bell with me. Children are capable of horrific savagery, it's our job as parents to guide them as best we can in the right direction.

I've already responded to your previous comments; so I hope it doesn't feel like I'm trying to target you, because you're not the only one who feels the way you do and I can understand where your perspective comes from, but I honestly don't see how you can describe other people's children as "undisciplined brats" and "savages" and then turn around say, "I'm not passing judgement on those children at all".

I don't feel singled out. I guess I'm being cynical and hyperbolic. To clarify, without guidance, my own children are often savages and undisciplined brats as well. I'm sorry if you don't like my strong language. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see children learning good behavior from one another very often, as they get older and learn more things, I assume that changes. I believe that parents need to be very active in their child's development to ensure that they're learning what they need to. I've seen and met other parents who take the attitude that just sending their kids to school and abdicating their responsibility for their child's development is ok and that their kid will somehow magically learn how to function in society. I admit that it's anecdotal, but I find that people my age who grew up under this lazy parenting model seem to be pretty incapable at life in general.

Regardless, I enjoy the conversation. I feel like using the word "savage", while it makes sense to me, may have distracted from the point I was trying to make. I have a pretty cynical view of human nature in general.

My wife's sister Susan used to teach elementary school -- mostly first grade, but one year she was moved to fourth grade. The latter is an interesting age. The kids have started to develop some of the general nastiness that they will display more vigorously after puberty, but the parents still tend to see them as small children, which they're really not anymore. This leads to a phenomenon whereby if a kids misbehaves in class, and the teacher brings this to the attention of the parents, the parents are usually in complete denial and angrily reject the possibility that their little "snowflake" could have done anything hurtful.

Maybe these parents always had been and would continue to be in denial; I don't know; but Susan thought the problem was much worse in fourth grade than in first, because the parents weren't staying abreast of their children's expanding capacity for mischief.

I've never had kids, though I think I would have liked to, but hearing things like this does leave me with the impression that a lot of parents are not really very much on the ball.

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