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Comment by amlib | Hacker News Reader

But what about the possibility of losing the earpieces? They don't have a cable and don't secure into your ear like a hearing aid or even a normal bluetooth device. If they are so comfortable to the point of the user "forgetting they are there" the rate at which people will lose these things might be huge.

They don't dangle from a cable when falling like normal headphones or Bluetooth headphones that have a cable between each earpiece. Since it's also so comfortable, the user might not even notice they lost an earpiece immediately if they are not listening to anything. (which will specially happen if the user has incentives to use it day long).

And more annoyingly, you will most likely lose just one of the pair. Will you be able to buy just one eapiece and pair it alongside the old pairless earpiece? I don't think so...

edit: fixed wording as eric_h pointed out

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    >But what about the possibility of losing the earpieces?

It's interesting to see how many people seem want to stop the conversation at "you're bound to lose one so what's the point."

10-15 years ago people the argument could have been made about cell phones, "why carry a phone you're bound to leave at a restaurant or on a train..."

If the AirPods or wireless mini computers in your ears become so integrated into our day to day lives one falling out will become obvious pretty quick. And the price will drop, maybe not for the Apple versions, but what about Google Now in $40 wireless earbuds in two or three years?

Ultimately that's what is going to limit the success of this product. It's not just one issue, you also now suddenly have to manage 3 pools of battery for a single device with that unnecessary dental floss container thing. I don't think this is good design, at least not in the function over form sense. If apple wasn't so stubborn they could just have linked both earpieces with a cable and a small battery in the middle eliminating both, the extra battery pool and "losability" problems. The price could also come down since there is no need for the dental floss device.

I don't want more batteries and dongles to carry around. A phone and a headphone are already cumbersome in my pocket.

Eventually we will have batteries powerful enough to eliminate the need for that dental floss thing, and the industry will finally standardize induction charging making charging the earpieces anywhere a reality.. but until then, apple is just ahead of the time.

But in a bad sense. Instead, they could just have made a product that is more realistic with the technology we have.

"Ultimately that's what is going to limit the success of this product." in reference to losability due to lack of dental floss between the earbuds

I will politely disagree. If the automation/augmentation/functionality provided is good enough then losability is a non-factor. If the capabilities afforded by the wireless W1 chips don't live up to the hype then dental floss ain't going to save them.

> 10-15 years ago people the argument could have been made about cell phones, "why carry a phone you're bound to leave at a restaurant or on a train..."

Could. But it wasn't because they were big and exciting so you would look pretty stupid saying that.

Losing those cigarette buts though is not a big problem. I have some Plactronics for some years now and there is a reason why they still hang at your neck.

But I guess, people who jump on that right now will have no problem spending that money again and again and...

That’s the genius of the tic-tac case they come in.

My particular form of obsessive-compulsive behavior revolves around finding and losing things. One of my big life lessons is that things don't get lost when you have a place for them — the keys go here, the wallet goes here, the phone goes here, they never get lost.

If the Airpods never needed to be charged, or could charge wirelessly by being dropped on a magnetic pad or something, I fully expect that they would get lost all the time. But the tic-tac case is an integral accessory — when you're wearing Airpods, the case is in your pocket, and when you're not wearing Airpods, the the Airpods are in the case.

(I was sad when Apple stopped including docks with iPhones, those solved a problem that most people don't realize they have)

I think the number of people who lose these things will be surprisingly low.

For me the concern would be one of the earpieces falling out without me noticing. Having a place for them doesn't do any good in that scenario.

I would imagine that the cable itself contributes more to the headphone falling out than the weight of the headphone itself.

Also, I imagine you mean "likely lose just one of the pair", as losing one pair means losing both of them (not intended as a dig, just helping to clarify; your intentions seemed clear)

In retrospect the fact that the cable is responsible for making headphones fall out makes so much sense, and I've even experienced it while running, but I hadn't thought of it. Thank you!

I don't think I'm alone in that though, which is great for Apple: if they're working better than expected, then consumers will love it. Expectations are everything.

The only reason my headphones ever "fall out" is because something catches the cable.

earbuds fall out all the time for me because generic earbuds are not shaped to fit everyone. it happens most often when i'm walking.

That's the strange thing about these.

Why didn't Apple allow for custom earbuds e.g. Comply or provide some way to modify the physical design to accomodate people with different ears.

customization has never been a huge idea within Apple.

I imagine the tech will get licensed at some point

You can rest assured that there will be an aftermarket of artisinally crafted earpods, hand carved and remolded to fit into your laser scanned ear canals.

As a musician who uses in-ear-monitors weekly, I very much wish I had custom molded ones.

It's not a hipster 'artisinal' thing as much as they ostensibly work better, and they aren't "hand carved"... there are refined process for this.

But they are supposed to be much more comfortable and sound better. I can't comment becasue I don't play enough (or make enough playing) to justify spending $500-800 on them.

Seems like the pinna+upper ear-canal could be moulded very easily with dental alginate? The issue would probably be that you'd need to insert some form of tethered plug to stop the alginate going in too far, perhaps a bead on nylon thread. Then it's just a hack job to pair it with the earphone. (Or you could produce a mould, etc.)

As far as I know, there is an existing process that can do this fine.

And I believe (but am not sure) that there are existing bluetooth solutions, though I couldn't imagine using those in a professional music monitoring context.

So I can easily imagine that there will be custom refitting of these devices. However, custom molds often cost $200-300 (or more) by themselves, plus the drivers, so not in my proce range.

I do use my "cheap" (Shure se215 ~$100) wired IEMs with my iphone now when I want more isolation than open-backed earbuds like ones that came with my phone. They are great for mowing the lawn.

But maybe the airpods are more reliant on the ambient sound, so I dunno if there is much to gain from custom molds.

Or slightly more low tech - an audiologist making a mold using putty:

https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/custom/

https://nobleaudio.com/en/support/impressions-instructions/

A large part of the reason they fall out is that the weight of the cable pulls them out. It's not 100% of the cause but it's definitely a major factor.

Citation needed -- the original Apple bluetooth headset for the iPhone fell out of my ears all the time.

>Citation needed

Physics?

It can be quite common within publications in the Physics community to also have citations.

for me, it's a bit of column and a bit of column b

>Since it's also so comfortable, the user might not even notice they lost an earpiece immediately if they are not listening to anything.

Is it possible Apple could implement some sort of loss alert mechanism for this?

Ideally each earpiece would have a low-power heartbeat even when in your pocket to continually verify they haven't been lost.

Good idea. The iPhone could vibrate/ring when it detects an earpiece is getting out of range (ie. fell behind when walking). Or the one earpiece left in your ear could tell you "you lost the other one" :)

It makes me chuckle to envision an earpiece screaming a high pitched whine as it falls to the ground.

Just partner with Disney and give it a legit R2-D2 scream.

It's possible we'll stop buying earbuds in pairs, and start buying them in ten packs. Some for your pocket, in your desk at work, at home, spares in the car... maybe some genius will figure out a design that fits in either ear, and uses compass measurements with the other bud to figure out whether it's in the left or right ear.

I assumed that was a large part of Apple's idea here. And as it's only an accessory the cost won't get factored in to people's phone purchasing decision.

Western women are comfortable clipping far more expensive diamonds, pearls, and gold to their ears. Sometimes they fall off and you look for them. Sometimes you lose one. This is sad. Life goes on.

(Apple has already said there will be a way to replace a lost single unit.)

Earrings need to either fail structurally or tear through your earlobe to be lost. Apple AirPods don't need to do either, they can just fall out.

You're not wrong in general, but there are still plenty of men and women who wear clip-on earrings.

This analogy is pretty bad because most people who clip expensive accessories to their ears don't usually go jogging or commuting through very crowded trains/buses. I don't think losing them is going to be the main problem of the airpods though. I think they're too early for their time but have potential in the future.

> most people who clip expensive accessories to their ears don't usually go jogging or commuting through very crowded trains/buses

Get on any rush hour subway in NYC and see how very wrong you are.

Do people really wearing expensive jewelry on the crowded trains? If so I stand corrected. However, I'm not talking about studs or chains that don't fall off easily. I'm referring to dangling earrings that I consider "dress-up" accessories. And I know there are people, but I said generally don't.

“This analogy is pretty bad because most people who clip expensive accessories to their ears don't usually go jogging or commuting through very crowded trains/buses”

Have you never seen anyone jogging or on a train or a bus?

I'm referring to more expensive earrings and necklaces that are used for parties and special occasions. Most people don't wear $600 earrings while going on a jog. The ones who wear expensive earrings to work generally don't have a commute on a crowded bus or train either. There are plenty of exceptions though.

I've seen plenty of men with the stud earrings that are probably upwards of $400 that go jogging and do everything as normal but I've never heard of those falling off.

They also have, as far as I'm aware, a pretty lousy battery life. They simply cannot be left in the ear all day; they'll need to be charged a couple times during the day.

That's what's going to hold up adoption. If we can't get a days usage out of it then many will hack together a wired solution, even if it's a battery on the other end.

Pretty sure this problem is completely overblown and won't be a real issue in practice.

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