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Comment by finchisko | Hacker News Reader

Poland what the uck are you doing? Literally black spot on EU map. Stop burning that much coal. Fix it ASAP.

Problem is Poland isn't really burning that much coal.

If you look at the emmisions per capita: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?name_desc...

Germany, which has a considerably cleaner grid, has still higher CO2 emissions per capita and has a greater population (80mln vs 38mln in Poland).

That being said the polish grid is long due for a massive overhaul, but - especially now - there's no political will to do it even though over 77% of the population would welcome switching to cleaner sources of electricity.

I personally count on renewables becoming cost-efficient soon - which could be a major driver for change.

I'm Polish (currently living in Spain). And yes, a lot of people in rural and small cities areas are using coal to heat houses, as well as wood and sometimes garbage which is the worst. What's more, our main electricity source is coal power plants - because of traditionally strong miners' lobby from Silesia area. Actually, no government had enough courage to make a shift into more cleaner power sources.

Been there many times. Old condos, homes have coal burning furnaces. People have no money to replace them despite aid from EU to convert to gas. Some people throw everything into the furnace to burn for heat. It's not pleasant to walk outside and breath air fowled by burning plastic bottles.

This is for electricity generation, so residential coal is excluded.

Actually we burn "renewable" wood here and decrease catastrophic effects of global warming caused by more developed economies.

We have coal, so we use it, like other countries did before. Wind/solar farms don't work well here because of the weather and are expensive. Nuclear plants would require foreign technology which is very costly, and so far nuclear plants here are just a dream, a way to drain the public funds into the pockets of "nuclear plant construction" committee, which doesn't do anything useful (it doesn't help that the public opinion is against nuclear energy because of the Chernobyl, even though all of our neighbours have nuclear plants anyway).

Don't be mad at me, but basically what are you saying is: "Screw you all, screw the planet, flood after us...". You should really not use argument: "you did it, so we will also do it", because when "we" did it, there was probably no other way. And now is. It's 2016, you can't burn coal in rate like it was 15th century. It won't help us transition to clean energy anyhow.

You have a point, but you have to also consider the fact that it is hypocritical to say that we are "Screwing the planet". If others were screwing it to build their economy, other countries also should have that ability. Countries that have more money can afford other forms of energy, but coal is abundant in Poland and it would be foolish not to use it.

For solar power, Poland doesn't have good geographical position, similar with wind (it is only in the northern part, while the majority of population is in the south). And hydro is not that environment friendly, but we have those in the south, but it is hard to make more because there is a limit on the amount of water and Poland has less of it than e.g. Egypt.

The only other option is nuclear, but as others have written it is not popular in the public.

> If others were screwing it to build their economy, other countries also should have that ability

Because of course building one's economy matters more than screwing the planet we all live on ?

What Poland is doing (as others did before) is very understandable, but it doesn't mean it's acceptable.

"Because of course building one's economy matters more than screwing the planet we all live on ?"

What a disgusting remark. Your entitlement and privilege are showing, never mind your lack of appreciation for geopolitical context and the lives of others outside of your comfortable bubble. Climate alarmism may feel good to the self-righteous, but it is unproductive and has been used to justify all kinds of despicable tactics by the powerful. There are a number of intertwined concerns that any charitable and fair-minded person would take into account before sowing baseless condemnation. I've already given some reasons why Poland is dependent on coal above. For Poland, energy independence is also a matter of national security. Coal also forms the economic base for Silesia. If climate change is so serious, then why don't you direct your pitchfork at the largest economies in the world that have been dragging their feet in these areas yet have the wealth to actual do something about it. Pull the plank out of your own eye before looking for splinters in the eyes of others.

Not sure If you checked those numbers. Look at Norway 20GW of clean energy (99% of clean energy). They're doing it.

You like numbers ? See those numbers

- What does it mean that the page has live data visualization. How often is the data updated ?

- How many sources of data are there. Does it cover all of them in every country ? Are they all online all the time ?

- Why is Estonia dark brown the whole time but when i click on it is see

  wind ++
  solar ?
  hydro
  biomass ?
  nuclear
  gas ?
  coal
  oil ?
  unknown ++++++++++

and it still has 595 gCO2eq/kWh

- What does "?" stands for in the results? Are some sources unavailable or is the data corrupted or what ?

- Why there is nothing under coal ?

- What does unknown here mean ? Does it contribute to gCO2eq/kWh ? I mean, so much of unknown energy. Are you serious ?

- What is the metric used after all ?

Is this software even alpha ? What is the version ? That is all very important when you create "facts" like this in Internet

Some links: Polish city polluted more then Beijing. https://www.ft.com/content/6712dd66-c91d-11e6-8f29-9445cac89...

33 out of 50 worst polluted cities are in Poland (due coal) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyIT4l4WIAEpzuF.jpg:large

Poland could be fined up to 900 mil Eur for crossing the pollution limits.

Even some numbers might be missing, you cannot argue fact, that producing electricity from clean sources is viable. It's just matter of first accepting the fact burning coal to produce electricity is bad and second take actions to shift towards clean energy production. However most advocates here seems to be stuck on point one (acceptance). Take look at Norway again. They produce 20 GW from hydro. It must be more they consume. I don't need more examples to stress out the fact that 100% clean energy production is viable.

What an ignorant and flippant comment. Before commenting, it's important to understand the reasons for why things are. Poland is burning coal for a number of reasons. First, coal forms the economic base for Silesia. You can't move away from coal unless you can transition the regional economy to something else. Second, Poland isn't exactly in a position to transition to other energy sources all that easily. Nuclear is expensive, shale gas is blocked by environmental groups (though Poland has one of the largest deposits in Europe). Solar and wind have already been commented on. Third, there is no energy solidarity in Europe, something made evident by Germany's smarmy deals with Russia that intentionally circumvent central Europe (e.g., Nordstream) that have serious political consequences, allowing Russia to cut energy to c. Europe while maintaining uninterrupted gas flow to Germany. Meanwhile, Germany, Europe's largest economy, is still burning coal and the failure of climate agreements show the hypocrisy and arrogance of the world's wealthiest countries when it comes to climate change. Making silly and absurd remarks about 15th century coal consumption is a testament to your boorish and condescending attitude towards others.

I've feeling you're only finding excuses, why it's ok to continue to burn coal. It seems there is no single alternative they want to accept (weather is bad, atom is expensive ...) and that is what really bothers me. That is pure ignorance. Poland coal supply no matter how huge is today, one day it will all gone and they'll have to transition from it anyway.

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