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Comment by freehunter | Hacker News Reader

And most of your solutions are incredibly non-obvious, just like Cmd+Up. Right click on the folder icon in the title bar? Hold down option to change the right click menus? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Explorer is terrible but it's better than Finder because you don't need to read a manual or tweak the defaults in order to make it work in a predictable manner.

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You can right click on the folder/document icon in the title bar in any app, and you can left click it to drag it. The icon, not the window. What's bizarre is how Windows has trained people to see icons as non interactive stickers instead of reactive proxies for the underlying object. The fact that many labels in Windows still don't update until you close and reopen the dialog is ridiculous, as is the continued use of "ok" "cancel" preferences.

You can right click on the folder/document icon in the title bar in any app, and you can left click it to drag it. The icon, not the window.

"You are holding it wrong".

The only reason to know this seems to be because someone has told someone it seems.

There is no indication in the design of the element, and IIRC not even a subtle glow when you mouseover.

Sorry: as much as I like Apple I don't waste my time on their software. Not saying it is bad but for me I had to admit it was a waste of perfectly good working time and focus.

If you like it: good. I know people who seem to be more productive with Macs. And more Apple users is good news for both Linux users and Windows users since they force companies to think cross platform and force Microsoft to be more humble.

Not everything has to be equally discoverable. By that same logic, the majority of right click interactions are off the table. You can right click window icons in Windows too, with no visual cue either, they just act different and the surface area is much smaller. Titlebars also don't tell you you can drag them, and essential productivity shortcuts like alt-tab are not advertised either.

It's okay to have to be taught some things, it makes it better for pro users when the handholding is minimal.

Here's another one: hold alt when a menu is open to see some options change into alternate versions. Instant feedback, works on dialogs too. Keeps the UI uncluttered for noobs and power users alike without significantly impeding you.

> And most of your solutions are incredibly non-obvious, just like Cmd+Up.

HOW is Cmd+Up NOT an obvious shortcut for going UP one level? As I said, Cmd is already the primary modifier key for all app-specific shortcuts.

On the other hand, what does Windows use? BACKSPACE! A key people associate with deletion and editing text!

> Hold down option to change the right click menus?

Option modifies shortcuts, changing their behavior. "ALTernate." Again it's a behavior that's consistent across all macOS apps.

> Explorer is terrible but it's better than Finder because you don't need to read a manual

You don't need to read a manual for Finder, or almost any macOS app, because you can just click on the Help menu, and type the name of a command or action you expect that app to be able to perform, and it will automatically highlight the menu which contains that action:

http://i.imgur.com/HNUNqpN.png

I just typed "path" in the Finder help menu and it showed me the shortcut for "Copy as Pathname" including the Alt/Option modifier. And that works in EVERY macOS app. Try doing that in Windows!

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