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Comment by euroclydon | Hacker News Reader

Unfortunately it's a GUI application. I have a very strong feeling that if you can't force your kids out of the windowed OS environment, the temptation to just go fritter away their time on some Flash game will be too strong. Who's young children haven't already been introduced to online gaming before BASIC or Python or Bash?

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Like many people here, I learned to program in a windowed OS environment. I learned to write windowed applications because I wanted to write real programs. I never had an interest in doing anything with Flash or the like.

I think all it takes is the right personality and the right inclination. The idea that you have to subvert modern technology to teach kids how to program is ludicrous; the kids who actually want to learn this stuff are going to learn it.

I agree, but it wouldn't be a bad thing to make it more accessible to them. I started with mIRC scripts myself, and that was because it was just so easy to get to it.

As a 19 year old kid thats trying to learn web programming right now (After becoming reasonably proficient in java first), I can tell you first hand that there is a pretty big barrier to entry. It's frankly just hard to know what all the moving parts that you are supposed to include as padding actually do.

And it goes without saying that the "black boxes" or function calls that make OO programming or functional programming so efficient to do in groups are hell on someone learning to code.

In order to get people involved, its much better to make it easier instead of telling people to try harder.

The best way to learn web programming is to start with the fundamentals. I would recommend to pick a technology stack, like RoR or whatever, and start reading the basic tutorials, but as soon as you get to a part which references HTML DOM, HTTP, CSS, or Javascript, diverge into those subjects, learning all you can about them, until you are either satisfied or bewildered, then come back to the original tutorial. The key is to not let all the time-saving effort that has gone into the frameworks prevent you from learning the fundamentals, otherwise they'll always seem like black boxes.

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