Comment by downandout | Hacker News Reader

Comment by downandout | Hacker News Reader

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Add-on fees have gotten out of control, both in the hotel and airline space. There is a race to the bottom for having the lowest price to show on booking sites. This is a form of SEO for airlines and hotels.

I am not familiar with any airlines that charge for carry-ons, but for example I know that many hotels in downtown Las Vegas have mandatory "resort fees" that on many nights actually exceed the nightly rate shown in booking engine search results - so the actual cost of staying is more than double the advertised rate. Most booking sites have heard so many complaints about this that they do show the total (including resort fees) just prior to booking. But the "headline rate" - the one shown in search results and used by the sites in arranging results by price - is the one sans resort fees.

Taken to an extreme level, hotels could advertise a $1 nightly rate and a $200/nt "resort fee". It wouldn't surprise me if this actually started happening, given the competition among hotels to show up first in search results. It sounds like some budget airlines are headed in a similar direction.

Resort fees drive me crazy.

It's one thing to charge for add-ons if you're taking a flight, because they're technically optional and there is a way to avoid them.

But resort fees are mandatory. There's no way to opt of using the gym or the pool or whatever it is that they're charging for. That they are somehow not included in the list price defies logic.

The resort fee isn't charging for anything in particular if it's mandatory; you can just as well say it covers air conditioning and elevators.

The logic here is perfectly sound. Resort fees haven't decreased customers (or haven't by enough to matter); and the FTC has a long history of not doing their job, so the risk of enforcement is fairly low. Ethics aren't an issue because large corporations tend to be sociopathic. So why not?

And the worst of this is in Vegas. You wouldn't use any of their amenities and there they are collecting resort fee from you and then you end up spending another shit load of money gambling.

It's because Vegas is for suckers, and they know this. The entire purpose of Vegas is to separate tourists from their money.

Vegas is only fun when you have money to blow. My trip in Vegas all I thought was, why the fuck is this so expensive?

Not my idea of a vacation

Vegas is renown as a low cost travel destination, $5 prime rib, cheap liquor, cheap hotels, but you need to avoid the strip. There is a big immigrant population and there is no shortage of awesome cheap food minutes away.

I have/had money to blow but I still didn't enjoy Vegas a bit.

There are conventions in Vegas too, I was unpleasantly surprised by resort fees and other lowhanded tactics when I went there last week :(

Spirit airlines. Also many airlines are rolling out "basic economy fares" that don't include food/drink/carry-on and compete with low-cost carriers, but run on normal flights. What used to be "normal economy" now requires an "upgrade" or "add-on" - ugh.

Flew United recently and just after boarding they made an announcement asking if anyone had purchased one of these "basic economy" fares, presumably so they could exclude them from the twelve cents worth of pretzel+soda service. What a ridiculous and insulting system (not to mention poorly-managed!).

The funny thing is that not everyone may even know that they are on a "basic economy" fare and may not raise their hand - not out of a desire to cheat the system, but because somebody else booked their travel (corporate travel department, family member, etc.). That, in addition to the people that just don't want to be called out as cheap, will yield very few people voluntarily disclosing this on a crowded plane.

I don't see how you can find it insulting. You pay less because you receive a lower level of service and that includes the pretzels.

You really don't see how being called out on the loudspeaker could be insulting even if the ticket buyer was fully aware of the service difference (which they may not be)?

Is it insulting when you have to sit in the normal seat pitch economy seat when the row in front of you paid more and received more knee space?

Yup -

At least if you're going to discriminate against people sitting next to each other, go off the manifest & don't be so overt about it.

Another ridiculous thing about United Basic economy that doesn't seem like it would save them money is that you can't check in online early you have to do it at the airport...

That's in case they overbook you're end of the queue.

Okay, so that's just BS, then. They're just charging a ton of money for flying standby (which is normally super cheap), then.

Though you can usually bring your own snack and drink, no? A few cans from duty-free, for example?

Airport shops charge about the same price as buying the in flight beverages on Spirit.

This is just like used books and various items on ebay coming up for 1cent with $15 shipping charges.

That was originally a way to avoid ebay seller fees. They didn't originally charge fees on shipping, only the cost of the item, which makes sense. People took advantage of that so they had to change that policy and charge fees on shipping it's not really "fair" to be charged fees on shipping but that's the way they choose to handle the situation. Now most things on eBay have "free" shipping, in other words the cost of shipping is rolled into the price of the item. I think you also have to have "free" shipping to be featured on eBay's daily deals which encourages the practice.

United charges for carry ons. I had to book a flight day of for a family emergency and it was super inconvenient. I couldn't even find a fare class on United with carry ons that wasn't outrageous. You also can't check in ahead of time because they inspect you to make sure you aren't sneaking any carry ons.

As of when? I've taken a ton of flights on united and never had to pay a carry-on fee. I've seen such fees on airlines like spirit or fronteer, but never on a "non-discount" airline.

United is piloting a new program called "Basic Economy" for flights to Chicago and probably other cities, which effectively turns them into Spirit or Frontier Airlines. It's incredibly crappy. My guess is within a couple years all airlines will be doing this.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/inflight/bas...

Most fliers want the lowest price, full stop. They'll complain about it to no end but will still keep voting for it with their wallets.

Must be an interesting challenge separating out real user issues from the volume of complaints about the service people were advertised and agreed to up front.

> Most fliers want the lowest price, full stop

Is it that most fliers want that, or is that headline ticket price is the easiest thing to compare with existing tools, and what people can compare easily shapes their selection criteria?

How do you "vote with your wallet" when your flight to see your family (or destination) is operated by a single airline and you have no choice?

Do you ever use brain when you repeat this religious mantra?

It's not necessary for every single flight to have multiple acceptable flight options for the market forces ("vote with your wallet") to have an effect. You could not go. You could drive. You could fly into another airport and drive the last leg. You could charter.

I go out of my way to choose Delta(/KLM/AF), JetBlue, and Southwest over United, Frontier, Spirit, and Ryan. That works, even if it means I once in a great while fly on United because that's the best choice for that particular trip/leg.

How many markets are served by, say, United and only United? Other than their Micronesia operation, I can't think of any where you wouldn't be able to drive to an alternate airport within an hour or so drive (really just EAS airports).

Hopefully Southwest never goes this route. They are my favorite carrier.

I like them a lot also. Full credit on cancellations up to 10 minutes before take-off, two bags checked free, and no hubs (point to point, non-stop is the way to fly). At least they are unlikely to be bought by another airline at his point. With a market cap of $37.6 billion, they are the second biggest airline world wide and just under Delta's $39.4 billion.

Southwest never will. It is against their values and how they differentiate themselves.

This does not sound correct at all. A personal item and carry on are always free on legacy carriers like United. Are you sure this was not checked baggage?

I wish that were true, but things are changing. United is trying to compete with budget airlines by introducing a new fare class called economy basic. https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/inflight/bas...

Read very carefully:

https://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/travel/Pages/BaggageCarry-O...

Technically, they aren't charging for carry-ons, just disallowing them (for Econ Basic) and leaving checking (and paying the checked-bag fee) as the only option.

Frontier airlines charges for carry-ons IIRC

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