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Comment by jimmyjim | Hacker News Reader

I'm sorry to see that you've been had and misinformed by Wikileaks-attackers.

It's been made clear numerous times now that Wikileaks never edited or omitted any parts of any of its leaks, any that were charged with the accusation at least. If you're thinking about the recent 39 minute video, here's a Gawker article that puts light on that: http://gawker.com/5513068/the-full-version-of-the-wikileaks-...

The relevant part:

Update: Wikileaks editor Jullian Assange told CNN yesterday that the 39 minute video is "everything we have. It is a continuous take except for one 20 minute interval." So, Wikileaks did not edit the video themselves—their source did.

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I need to clean this comment up.

Even with this release they sold out, giving The New York Times, Guardian, Der Spiegel copies a month early. Of course, for a fee. Also note that Wikileaks withheld 15,000 “as part of a harm minimization process demanded by our source."[6]

This tactic of "the source said so" is in itself untrustworthy as you can never verify the source. These are not forged or faked, however, withholding data is not being "transparent". Which is wikileaks mission.

Here is a better, IMO, review of the video and context leading up to the attack: http://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/bn5lg/badass_take_...

I think George Brock said it best in his post entitled "Julian Assange and the Wikileaks agenda" where he wrote, "Assange’s style is an odd mixture of insight, nonsense and brass-neck salesmanship"[2] The fact that Wikileaks has an agenda and are out to sell information to the highest bidder does not speak well, IMO[3]. If you are going to promote transparency be transparent your self.

The Wau Holland Foundation has told reporters that Wikileaks receives no money for personnel costs, only for hardware, travel and bandwidth, however they have not produced any detailed receipts for this[4]. As any charity should do- some are even required by law to do so.

On their twitter feed they call cryptome out for full primary sources, this is very hypocritical on their part[5]. Many of their problems did not start until Assange took the "helm", and many will not cease until he leaves.

They have also released bank numbers, addresses, SSN, and other private information on individuals(see BNP and Bank post). This is not necessary. You claim to "fight the power" then do it, do not hurt civilians along the way.

[1] http://www.tcij.org/

[2] http://georgebrock.net/?p=853

[3] http://stefanmey.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/leak-o-nomy-the-ec...

[4] http://www.techeye.net/internet/wau-holland-foundation-sheds...

[5] http://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/17960055502

[6] http://security.unt.edu/aggregator/categories/1

Hum, to correct some points: 1) the Guardian at least says no fee was involved:

"Assange allowed the Guardian to examine the logs at our request. No fee was involved and Wikileaks was not involved in the preparation of the Guardian's articles."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/25/afghanistan-war-...

2) I think also it's fairly clear the auction model was something they considered, tried and rejected (the auction failed), and 3) you didn't mention that the Wau Holland Foundation /will/ be producing a report as required by law.

And finally, concerning the extra documents not released, WL said it would only /delay/ the release, not block them altogether:

"We have delayed the release of some 15,000 reports from total archive as part of a harm minimization process demanded by our source. After further review, these reports will be released, with occasional redactions, and eventually, in full, as the security situation in Afghanistan permits."

http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/

Awesome points.

1) I agree that Wikileaks was not involved in the preparation of any articles- Assange does not wield that much power- however, payment of some sort was involved. I cannot go into details on this as my sources would not allow it.

2) I do not work for Wikileaks, and I doubt you do. What they do behind closed doors is only up for public opinion. They have made it clear in the past that they are not beyond selling information. I am not so certain they are still not up for it.

3) I thought I had included that they were planning on releasing a summary in August. This is, however, the first one they have done since Wikileaks inception in 2006. Where are the last 3?

4) I am a huge fan of Mr. Assange. I do not like his politics, but I do respect him. For what ever reason you have decided to believe him. The word of someone who has told you their agenda. The word of a man who also deleted 30 mins from the 2007 helo attack. Now they delete facts from the War logs? What about the lying[1]? I can take but so much before I start to see something fishy. If your goal is transparency than you your self mush be 100% transparent, and Wikileaks is not.

http://cryptome.org/0002/wikileaks-incon.htm

I am not a Wikileaks apologist (in fact, I believe they are biased and fairly untrustworthy), but both the NY Times and the Guardian (sorry, don't read German :) were both very explicit in saying there was no money involved.

Do you have evidence supporting the claim that they demanded a fee from those agencies?

Perhaps they haven't edited leaks, but it's pretty obvious Wikileaks has some biases, particularly anti-war. The branding of the Iraq airstrike video as "Collateral Murder" stained their credibility, IMO.

The fact that they don't edit/omit parts of leaks also says nothing about which leaks they choose to publish.

That said, I think it's a valuable service, I just wish they remained an unbiased source of leaked information. Of course, journalism is rarely unbiased.

>but it's pretty obvious Wikileaks has some biases, particularly anti-war

We know that Sadam did not have any WMDs. We know that Iraq didn't have or support terrorists. We know that our government knew these things before going to war. Being "anti" such a war isn't "bias". It's the only moral option. If someone reports on a murderer being convicted do they have an "anti-murder bias"?

Ugh, I'm not going to get into this argument on HN.

Arguments are either about differences in opinion or one side trying to correct the ignorance of another party (aka educate). You can't have an "opinion" about facts. Facts are simply facts and if you disagree with them you are simply ignorant of them.

So to have an argument (at least the good kind) here you would have to either (a) make the case that one of my "We know" statements is wrong or (b) make the case that there is some moral ambiguity given (a). If (a) holds then that means the US attacked a more-or-less random country (or worse, a specific country for reasons which we have to hide). I think one would have a rather large burden trying to prove that to be morally ambiguous.

> it's pretty obvious Wikileaks has some biases, particularly anti-war

Who exactly does not have an anti-war bias? Mass-murdering psychopaths? Insane dictators? Anyone who likes killing other people?

Yeah, that was a poor choice of words.

Calling that video "Collateral Murder" promotes their view that the airstrike was "murder", which is not clear.

I'm only saying they should present the information and leave their opinion out of it.

> I'm only saying they should present the information and leave their opinion out of it.

They do both. Feel free to take their complete source material and republish it with your own analysis. There is no other media organization in the world which gives you this opportunity.

I'd go so far as to say that journalism is never unbiased and I don't see how it could ever be otherwise.

> Wikileaks editor Jullian Assange told CNN yesterday that the 39 minute video is "everything we have. It is a continuous take except for one 20 minute interval." So, Wikileaks did not edit the video themselves—their source did.

That's what Andrew Breitbart said too.

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