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Comment by TheAdamAndChe | Hacker News Reader

> Essentially what the dollar stores are betting on in a large way is that we are going to have a permanent underclass in America. It’s based on the concept that the jobs went away, and the jobs are never coming back, and that things aren’t going to get better in any of these places.

Given the fact that the government hasn't changed tune since the 2016 election, I'd say that's a pretty safe bet. Rural America has been decimated by globalization, anti-trust legislation removal, illegal immigration, and automation, yet the only things the politicians and media are talking about are issues that most rural folk don't care about.

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We're here to learn something, not to engage in tedious back-and-forth ideological scrimmage, so the guidelines ask you to please not post like this:

> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's a post about a company adapting to the declining rural America, and we aren't supposed to discuss what is causing the decline? That doesn't make sense. How will these conversations advance when they're either basically banned on all other forms of media or within an echo chamber?

We're not trying to avoid a discussion! The opposite: in order to have one, we need to do a better job of commenting thoughtfully and insightfully.

How has illegal immigration decimated rural america?

We live in a country with ~300 million citizens, and ~10 million illegal immigrants. That means that illegal immigrants only make up about 3% of the population, which doesn't sound like much! However, illegal immigrants are spread _very_ unevenly across the country[1], creating pockets where lower-class American wages are suppressed[2]. The effect of illegal immigration isn't nearly as strong as globalization and anti-trust legislation removal, but it is there, and is definitely felt in those areas affected.

The "decimation" comes from the cumulative effect of all of those factors(globalization, anti-trust legislation removal, illegal immigration, and automation) pushing jobs out of the area and lowering wages.

[1]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2274081/Pew-Hispanic...

[2] https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21705699-who-ar...

Well, one should also account for gumption.

Those illegal immigrants are standing outside every Home Depot waiting to provide labor for any job you can give them.

I've never seen a white or black person standing outside a Home Depot just hoping that someone will come hire them.

Also, think about the last time you ate food: that food was likely picked by an illegal Mexican immigrant or cooked by a Mexican chef.

I ate at Kobe Japan restaurant in Walnut Creek for a hibachi meal - the chef was named Jose.

If a Mexican rapture ever happened - many people would starve to death.

The work ethic of Mexicans is beyond the pale...

That's cool. My point still stands.

Illegal immigrants don't comply with our labor laws, don't pay taxes, suppress wages in the area, don't have the leverage that a legal worker does, and bring down the quality of life for local lower class legal workers.

I don't blame them for doing it, I know they're just trying to live the best life they can. But that doesn't mean I'll ignore the economic impact they have on the lower class.

>Illegal immigrants don't comply ...

I would have thought that before that, the good US citizens that employ them don't comply ...

They do pay taxes - and don't collect on them...

>don't pay taxes

Except when they do:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocum...

Anyone want to guess at how many Americans work under the table and don't pay taxes?

> How has illegal immigration decimated rural america?

I wouldn't say it's "decimated" rural America, but it's hard to argue that a flood of low-educated, low-skilled illegal immigrants does not have an adverse effect on the low-educated, low-skilled US citizens who must compete with them for jobs.

And with automation shrinking the number of manual-labor jobs these people are capable of doing, it's only going to get worse for them.

"...it's hard to argue that a flood of low-educated, low-skilled illegal immigrants does not have an adverse effect on the low-educated, low-skilled US citizens..."

It's not hard to argue. At a minimum, the topic is under debate:

https://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=0...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/artcarden/2015/08/28/how-do-ill...

Pretty much all of those pro-illegal immigration arguments boil down to "economic output is higher with illegal immigrants, also illegal immigrants buy stuff, therefore everyone wins!" To me, that fails to consider where the increased economic output goes. Seeing how corporate profits are higher than ever while wages are stagnant, it's incredibly tough for me to see how it would be a positive for the lower class that need to compete with those illegal immigrants.

edit: Oh, come on, Hacker News. Don't be an echo chamber. I'm not being an asshole, merely stating my viewpoint. Don't downvote me for disagreeing with me, I'm trying to contribute to the conversation.

Regardless of the argument, I'd really like to see an objective measure of "automation" in industry...

For example, how many farmers are going to be displaced by robot tractors vs how many harvesters will be replacing Mexican farm workers.

I just picked a bunch of cherry tomatoes recently and it was a tedious endeavor which I believe would be near impossible with a robot, given the growing conditions (I.e. Not grown in an indoor lab/greenhouse)

We talk about "automation killing jobs" - but I am not aware of any objective study on the topic.

Do you have anything I can read on the subject?

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