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Comment by thrownsjdke | Hacker News Reader

Right, Snowden weakened US national security. He clued in the public to important secrets related to our intel operations, and ticked off public backlash against our intelligence agencies.

Now, Snowden sits comfortably in a country who is actively hacking us. I’d bet my life that high school students from St. Petersburg have more reverse engineering skills than all US undergrads, at least those who are now interested in supporting US intelligence operations.

Why HN praises Snowden, who committed treason against this country, is beyond me.

It seems that Snowden is part of an effort to divide and wreck the culture of this nation. Russians, on the other hand, are fairly unified in their fight against us. I keep encountering smart folks in this country who could help US national security but won’t on moral principles. Such a mentality was catalyzed by his actions.

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It's a question of perspective. The US government and the NSA commited treason against basically every person using the internet. Also you calling him "Snow dawg" says a lot about you...

Just watch how I get down voted here. Tells you a lot about the culture here.

The HN community has quite a wide variety of views and tends to value civil, considered, constructive discourse (as well as refraining from commenting on down votes). Tone as well as content go a long way: there have been plenty of comments over the years that are critical of Snowden. Choosing to use a pejorative nickname and phrases like "HN worships" don't do anything to promote your argument. You're choosing to participate on HN, and are therefore part of the community and its culture. I doubt you include yourself when you say "HN worships", yet you're participating here. Consider that there may be others on HN who wouldn't categorize their opinions of Snowden as "worshipping" either. (And there definitely are.)

You mention the "divide and wreck of culture of this nation", which indicates to me that you care about such things. Are the comments you've posted going to do anything to make this better? Likely not: people who agree with you are likely going to continue to agree with you, and those that don't are likely to write you off due to how you're presenting yourself. If your goal is to help make things better, I encourage you to think on ways you might be more effective. People may not necessarily agree with the positions you hold, but they may also have reasoned and nuanced reasons for holding the positions they do.

You seem to have good writing skills. Can you now respond to my post whereby I’ve made the claim that Snowden has committed treason, weakened US national security, and possibly ticked off a decline in interest for working for US intelligence?

If the public is aware of our intel capabilities as a direct result of Snowden’s action, it seems close to certain that my points are correct.

I think all of the points you raise are worth discussing. Of particularly interest to me is figuring out how to have discussions on contentious topics in a constructive manner, which is why I commented here. Whether or not I'm effective in this, I do know that I haven't done enough research to weigh in responsibly on Snowden or the other points you raise. (For example, to be effective, I would want to have some facts at hand with respect to education levels and curriculum of high school students in St. Petersburg, Russia, undergrads in the US, rates of entry into the intelligence services over time, etc. I don't have such and am not sufficiently motivated to look them up). I do believe that the points you make in this comment are much more likely to result in a better discussion. Thank you for that!

A new account introducing a very loaded topic that has been discussed over and over again as a tangent doesn't stand much chance. Going after other commenters because of their presumed nationality really doesn't help.

Indeed, and the shock value is necessary given the low quality anti West garbage emanating from the Russia * * camp.

My assertion is that HN has been overtaken by intelligent / unethical / ostensibly respectful trolls. I know a thing or two about this; such behavior used to occur only on Reddit. Why does Snowden exist as a public figure? I have evidence. No I’m not sharing it now.

Topic remains valid. Humanity can’t even agree on what kinds of privacy and for whom are best for society. Conversation hasn’t even occurred yet.

Witness how my comment was cleaned up to be respectful, leaving only the relevant parts, only to end up downvoted into the ether. It would be nice if a moderator could unflag my original comment since it’s relevant, as another commenter pointed out.

It's probably because you're calling him snow dog.

Edited, thanks. I doubt the downvotes will be undone, though.

Thanks for editing your post. With respect to the voting, unfortunately that's partly an artifact of viewing the site. Unless people are following the thread, they aren't likely to see an edit. There is an option in account settings which permits including a delay before a comment is made visible. This allows a period of time where you can edit the comment before others view it. This can help if you've dashed off a comment in the heat of the moment, reflect, and rewrite it with a cooler head. Admittedly, it doesn't help if the comment has already been viewed, but it may prevent some of what you experienced.

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