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Comment by hyperbovine | Hacker News Reader

It would be better to know at what age this increases risk. If a lifetime spent drinking delicious, delicious red wine ends up taking me out 5yrs before Alzheimer's would, so be it.

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How old are you? I'm just a touch over 40 and even at this age the poignancy of life really starts to reveal itself to you.

You would trade 5 years of your life for being able to drink wine? Because it's that delicious, right? Sorry, but this is either hyperbole to the point of silliness or you have no idea the value of your life.

It depends on what you value. a lot of my life's highlights are those spent over beers with my friends. I'm unlikely to have kids. The way I've seen my relatives struggle in the later period of their lives doesn't appeal to me at all.

But you do have a decade on me and I am certain that adds some perspective. I am much wiser than I was when I was at 20. And I am certainly not pretending that it isn't doing damage.

My apologies if that came off too aggressively. It is a subject that I get emotional about due to events in my own life and the lives of my loved ones that were absolutely alcohol related.

Thinking back 10 years, I would have said exactly the same thing (about whisky or tobacco), so I see where you are coming from. I'm sure it seems hypocritical for me to be so anti-alcohol after my earlier behaviors. I think having kids made me open my eyes to it. I wasn't a heavy drinker by that time, but there were still a number of Sundays where "Daddy really feels sick today, baby. Is it okay if I just lay down and you watch a show?".

It's just no longer conducive to constructive living in my view now. To each their own, YMMV, etc.

Oh, no I didn't read it aggressively. It's strange for me to be defending behaviours which, if they aren't slowly killing me, are certainly edging the percentages the wrong way. I'm also at an odd spot in my life at the moment where I am keen to eek out joy wherever I can. I wouldn't be surprised if my perspective changes.

I hear you on that. I guess for me, when I look back and am honest with myself, what I thought was joyous excess at the time was really me being in a dark spot and excusing many of my behaviors because alcohol. When I think back on things I have done that I feel twinges of regret about or that were blatantly disgusting in hindsight, probably 80% of the time liquor was involved in some fashion.

So why are you projecting that onto other people?

Why are you so adamant to argue with me? I'm not projecting. I am talking about my thoughts on a subject I am experienced with.

How patronizing. I would happily trade five extra years at the very end of my life in return for fulfillment and enjoyment in the run up. Maybe by some fluke you have not, but I’ve seen advanced old age up close and personal and in most cases, it ain’t pretty. You have the luxury of being young and (presumably) relatively healthy now. Come talk to me in 40 years when you are immobile, incontinent, arthritic and/or demented. Oh, and most of your friends and siblings are dead. Medical technology has enabled us to live to an age where the quality of life is, in many cases, exceedingly low. Not everyone thinks that is “poignant“.

I wasn't intending to be patronizing, but I can take that as a fair criticism.

I have indeed experienced it up close and personal. My experience is that there is no magical "shaving X number of years off the end of your life". It doesn't work like that, unfortunately. Come talk to me in 40 years when your daughter is due with her first child in a month and you don't want to live to see that. Maybe we have too different of lives to be able to empathize with each other, but I wouldn't willingly give up those years of my life if I answer the question posed with no caveats (i.e. - well, but what if I lose my mind? What if I become incontinent? Etc.)

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry that you started an incredibly patronizing post off with "I wasn't intending to be patronizing."

If you have a specific suggestion for an edit, let me know. I already posted many times that I was emotionally responding and I should have come at it differently. I don't want the way I presented myself to discount my opinion.

Don't forget that the X years always come off the back end. If you'd speak to my 90 year old grandmother about the poignancy of life right now I think she might have a thing or two to teach you about how great it is at the end.

You've also chosen wine as the enemy here, I bet for any given person earth (including you) we could find something you could have done more of (or not done at all) to improve your lifespan. Very few people trade everything off for life expectancy, and those that do often have dreams of singularity or life extension as their only goal.

One more thought...it doesn't always come off the back end. My mother is obese due to lifestyle choices. She has an artificial knee and hip. She is still a vibrant 67 year old woman, but she lost almost 2 years in rehabilitation and now does and will have mobility issues for the rest of her life. I still don't think when the end comes that she would have wanted to miss all the things that happened (good and bad) during those years, or even as she deteriorates further in the coming years.

Edit: spelling

Point taken. I was too aggresive in my dismissal and you are absolutely correct that I have the same flaws as any human. Apologies if my tone seemed condescending. As I mentioned in my reply below, I have a lot of feels when it comes to booze.

There's also the "family history of Alzheimer's" aspect. A long and graceful old age isn't on everyone's cards.

The problem is that the trade off is probabilistic. It’s not 5 fewer years, it’s a slightly increased chance of 40 fewer years, a larger chance of 20 fewer years, or a larger still chance of 5 fewer years.

Oh, so you're lifestyle is perfect then? You aren't a single pound overweight, you wear sunscreen every day, never miss a workout, you never stay up late or sleep in, and your diet is 100% perfect?

Because if it's not then I guess you don't know how to value your life either.

You really aren't adding anything to this discussion.

Depends on which 5. If I live to be 60 where otherwise I’d live to be 65, that’s a bigger deal vs 90/95 with dementia thrown in for good measure.

Exactly. It's not just about the cost, it's about the tradeoff.

Alzheimer's doesn't come onto you because your old. People in their 40s can come down with it sadly. BUT 85+ you have a 32% chance of getting it. https://www.alz.org/documents_custom/2016-facts-and-figures....

possibly alcohol will accelerate neural deterioration - so you will still have your Alzheimer and die sooner.

> possibly alcohol will accelerate neural deterioration

Citation needed.

you forgot the </irony> ... or do you want citation for proving that alcohol is detrimental to your brain? :D

> do you want citation for proving that alcohol is detrimental to your brain?

Yes?

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