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Comment by cm2187 | Hacker News Reader

I'd argue I have way less control on my OS on an iphone or an ipad than on a Windows machine. Not that I think it's ok to lock us out of our own hardware, but Windows is not the worst offender, by a huge margin.

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While that's true, the vertically integrated nature of Apple products means you either trust Apple or you don't.

With a Windows PC you're having to trust Microsoft, the OEM, the ODM, the BIOS manufacturer, the driver author for each and ever piece of hardware in your system.

It's much easier to vet a single source.

There are some benefits on both sides. Here is the ability to choose the manufacturer of the hardware. Depends on what you need. The problem (for me at least) is when I'm stuck with one of them because of work, entertainment, etc. All of them are greedy bastards. Sometimes I want to wipe everything, install ubuntu and quit my job, but my wife disagrees.

I make it a habit to wipe and install from scratch any PC that I setup. Occasionally I need to download a network driver but the default system images usually have one that works.

I like the Signature Edition program where Microsoft vets that the machine just has a clean Windows install and minimal drivers out-of-the-box. I recommend that to a lot of people. The easiest way to buy a Signature Edition PC is from the Microsoft Store, but some of the OEMs and some Best Buys and Staples will offer them if you ask nicely. It saves a bit of time from wiping it yourself.

That was a good solution until the spyware/adware came with windows itself.

Actually you can choose not to install the latest iOS. When Flappy Bird shut down they didn’t delete the app from phones . I’m pretty sure that android has the same thing.But Android can have preinstalled apps that can’t be installed unless you flash a new rom.

Always be sure to backup your IPA files (you need the "special" iTunes version for this) so you can reinstall apps you've paid for on other devices.

> But Android can have preinstalled apps that can’t be installed unless you flash a new rom.

Did you mean uninstalled or updated? ROM Apps can be updated but not uninstalled and sometimes not disabled.

I mean uninstalled .

There is some merit, however, to the argument that iThings have always been locked down (or intended to be, at least), whereas the Windows changes are a regression.

Could you state what the merit is?

Not GP, but one is a breaking change from customer expectations and the other is WAI

Given the success of Apple, that sounds like Windows is attempting to meet customer expectations. In any case, It seemed to me that the OP was arguing for a pro-lockeddown position, which is why I asked what the merits are.

I think gp’s position is that customer expectations of apple and windows platforms are different- that locked-down-ness was something that, when people could deal with it and preferred it, already were not the core windows customers.

This is called the fallacy of relative privation. All of the above sucks and that doesn't excuse Windows' behavior.

Of course, but this is just moving the goalposts. I think Apple bears a lot of responsibility for making an entire new product category so anti-user, but within desktop computing, the standards are different (thank god), and Windows is the worst offender there.

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