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Comment by legohead | Hacker News Reader

Sort of related.. but I'd say classical composing. Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi, Prokofiev, etc.

Where are the modern classical powerhouses? Contemporary classical is a scary, awful thing for my ears. The best I have found is actually in the movies - Danny Elfman and Hanz Zimmer, for instance. I sort of attribute them to modern Opera writers, though - they don't write full on symphonies.

I don't believe myself a snob, I listen to and enjoy modern metal, pop, techno. But I love the old classical as well. While techno and metal continue to progress and get better, classical has grown...weird

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Many of of the great composers of yore wrote for operas, ballets, theater, and such which is the equivalent to movies today so I think that's an apt comparison.

That said much of the experimentation in classical music has been worked on and refined and yielded music which worked well later. For instance Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring sounded weird to the audience of the time, but we've come to accept it and many of its devices have been used to good effect (for instance by John Williams). One reason I think is audience have grown to accept and understand these sounds. Another reason I believe is the context. I think often we hear these together with a movie and it fits emotionally, but when we hear the music in isolation in a concert hall it we don't get it.

So, I think classical (and jazz and music in general) has always been weird and people have tried to push the boundaries and generally it's brought good results over time even though we may find it difficult to appreciate it right away or without the right context.

I think that's more of a cultural issue. Current "classical music" culture generates what I agree is pretty awful music. A lot of art forms end up like that: you have to digress from the norm to be relevant while staying within the lines to be part of the genre, and eventually you end up with garbage. Techno, and really most other modern genres have a lot more creative space left unexplored.

It's just like how it's hard to get too excited about modern art. It can either be derivative and boring or it can be outlandish trash, and nobody's giving awards to derivative and boring, so guess what you're going to see lots of.

> you have to digress from the norm to be relevant while staying within the lines to be part of the genre, and eventually you end up with garbage.

> nobody's giving awards to derivative and boring, so guess what you're going to see lots of.

I get what you are saying about incentives here (I think). But this may be too cynical and simplistic a way to look at pressures in art creation.

There are lots of artists simply trying to find their way and make new work that contributes to the ongoing development of their medium.

At one point harmony itself was frowned upon in Western music. Many of the great classical composers wrote music that was controversial at the time because of how they extended the use of harmony beyond the comfort level of the previous generation.

I'm not saying you have to like all the modern stuff, but it's possible to approach it with much less cynicism. Many of our favorite historical composers were pushing the medium in their day. We might have a bit of selection bias too in that it is mostly the music that became culturally accepted that we still have access to.

Lots of modern art and music doesn't land for me, but sometimes it really does and I'm grateful for it.

I happened to be listening to this when I saw your post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mwBribeCoM&list=RD7mwBribeC...

Besides John Adams, Philip Glass and Steve Reich are still putting out stuff.

I also dug this from Rachel Grimes recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBGXinia7PY&list=PLna3_ZMkaP...

Orchestral music is a tough racket because it costs $50,000 to get an orchestra out of bed, and then you're competing against 200 years of great stuff that's in the public domain. I do think that soundtracks are where it's at for orchestral music. Music that's not simple pop had a shift from churches and courts to concert halls in the 1800s because that's where the money was, and now most people experience it in film or videogames for the same reason. Williams, Zimmer, Shore, and Elfman have all done great stuff.

I guess nobody said the classical symphony has to be a permanent style, or even the concert.

Despite that (notice that I am not an expert at all), Philip Glass has a number of what he calls symphonies. Not that I like them much but there they are.

Have you listened to John Taverner? They used some of his compositions (quite appropriately, to my taste) in "Children of men".

On the other hand, writing for the screen does not need to be "soft" or "less important". The same Philip glass has some (rather good, to my taste) impressive things in the Qatsi trilogy.

Religious composers are also rather good. Have you listened to Arvo Part? Or John Rutter's Requiem? Or James Macmillan? There is good stuff there.

At the same time, notice that Philip Glass may be a minimalist but his incidental music for "The Secret Agent" or the first piece of "Naqoyqatsi" are impressive works for strings.

Well, just to give you some light.

Arvo Part’s Music is lovely. I discovered him after watching Bjork interview him in this clip https://youtu.be/YfqEAZCYcHI

You should listen to Johan de Meij, especially his "Lord of the Rings"-symphony and a piece for brass band called "Extreme Make-Over". If you have Spotify I recommend these recordings:

Lord of the Rings, London Symphony Orchestra - https://open.spotify.com/album/3kjNIrJSKzGYZ6TD2kRErL?si=hZZ...

Extreme Make-Over, Aeolus Brass Band - https://open.spotify.com/track/7AhyCYGbpaCQF9EZF8r9y5?si=9VD...

Re: Where are the modern classical powerhouses? Contemporary classical is a scary, awful thing for my ears.

Isn't that subjective? John Williams is quite popular, I would note. His soundtracks for Star Wars, ET, Indian Jones, etc. are well known, and catchy in my opinion.

Last weekend, the Oregon Symphony performed the score for Jurassic Park as the film played on a big screen above the orchestra. It was great fun. More than once, I caught myself thinking "this place has a really great sound system".

Meh.

Your short list, like all of them, ignores the 1000 contemporaries of Beethoven who churned out trash.

There's plenty of nice modern classical music. Lots of it sounds 'normal' - you might like to try something by Thomas Ades, like Asyla or Totentanz.

Define modern?

Shostakovich was writing well into the 1970's, and was arguably the last in line of romantic, tonal, tradition.

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