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Comment by bartkappenburg | Hacker News Reader

Here's a map that shows how many deaths in traffic are occuring per 1 million inhabitants in europe: https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/map_twitter.png

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In Greece you can buy little metal plugs for your sealtbelt socket so you don't have to use the seatbelt and don't get the error beeps from the car. I'm sure it does contribute to the fatality rate.

I don't get why anyone would want that. At no time in the two decades I've been driving a car, I've never, ever, ever thought to myself "This seatbelt is annoying, I wish I didn't have to use it."

I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger.

It's remarkably common in Greece - especially in the islands. My family lived there for 10 years, and I visited often. People would drive around with seatbelts left plugged in behind them, with the belt across their back. That included my parents, who would never dream of doing it in the UK (at least since the 80s).

It's a weird cultural thing

That is the normal response in countries that completed the cultural transition from 'no seatbelts' to 'never without a seatbelt', but not all countries started this transition at the same time, and some will take longer than others due to various cultural and political factors, such as the actual risk of getting fined for the offense and the effect of the publicity campaigns.

Not using a seatbelt was the norm only fifty years ago.

I remember when we made the transition in my country, about 35 years ago. My mother was pissed off that the government forced her to use the seatbelt. She got herself a doctor note stating she couldn't use it for medical reasons... And a little more recently, people were complaining when we had to wear it on the rear seats, or in buses.

Maybe it's also how your parents prime you with the necessity. While seatbelts for cars have been mandatory since 1976 in Germany for trucks over 3.5t it's only been since 1992 and I do remember riding in a truck that didn't even have seatbelts (thus it was still ok to ride without) in the early 90s and have an uneasy feeling. Maybe my parents were adamant enough to always wear a seatbelt in the car (at the same time)... Wouldn't say I was scared, but apparently I believed them it was a good thing :P

> I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger

Not sure how many road trips you took as a child, but lying down across the back seat with a seat belt is harder than without.

We used to just throw caution to the wind, put the seats down in our suburban and fill the area with blankets.

Another case of conditioning. I automatically put on the seat belt (and fear weird without it) because I was raised this way.

There are 2 reasons - Health issues - trouble breathing. - getting stuck in the car that's on fire, drowning etc. (yes I know you are better of with the seatbelt)

We have a few decades of statistics that tell use that wearing a seatbelt and not getting flung out of a car during an accident is much saver than getting stuck in the car. http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2011/jul/1...

Seatbelts save lives, it's a fact you can't get around. When they developed and tried them, they realized how good seatbelts are and decided that every car should have them, not patent fee for any manufacturer.

Or just don't buy an electric car...

Not sure why the downvote. I'm just presenting BS arguments that people have for not using it. I'm fully aware it's a bad idea.

Trouble breathing? You’re probably wearing the seatbelt wrong. It goes across the chest, not around one’s neck. If one is that delicate that the light touch of a chest belt causes difficulty breathing, then one might ought to drive oneself to a hospital post haste.

I know a person that has papers from the doctor to show it to the police. He's morbidly obese and has a medical condition, which causes trouble breathing.

But he's okay with driving a car despite his condition?

Some people have a phobia with the belt, and might even be legally have an exception.

Someone I know has a brother who was in an accident, was wearing seat belt, was stuck in the car as he couldn't release the belt, and was burned somewhat. He simply couldn't buckle up after that and eventually got some kind of exemption for medical reasons.

I have one of these in the centre console container

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AA-Emergency-Windcsreen-Hammer-Seat...

These are common in China, too.

What does Greece has that I've never seen in China? T-shirts that have a seat-belt design printed on them, to fool police officers from afar.

The dedication that some people put into breaking simple laws like wearing a seat belt astounds me.

It seems to me like it would be easier to put up with a little bit of discomfort (not that seat belts are uncomfortable) than it would be to get a special plug for your seat belt socket, and wear a T-shirt that looks like a seat belt. That's a lot of effort to be petty.

And in the US you can buy beer openers that fit in the seat-belt sockets when not in use.

And I own one!

It is used to shut off the beeping when carrying groceries in my passenger seat. Cheap and effective. But the initial thought betrays some reasoning.

That strikes two flies with one clap.

I thought the relevant statistic was deaths per kilometer traveled? Otherwise you get countries where people simply drive more skewed higher despite any given ride being just as safe/safer.

There are a lot of ways to slice the data, and each of them tells a different part of the story. Suppose two countries have the exact same number of fatalities per km, and the same population, but one country drives twice as much. It is still a relevant fact that the country that drives twice as much has twice as many deaths. Policies that discourage driving will help reduce death rates in that country.

Assuming death rates from driving are the only death rates affected. There are unintended consequences worth studying.

It certainly can get very complex. Diesel emissions vs electric cars. Emissions in a city where everyone is inhaling the pollution vs in the countryside where it disperses quickly...

Infrastructure that forces you to drive more is more dangerous. Do we measure "deaths per bullet purchased"?

Shorter drives means fewer deaths, generally speaking.

Yeah, that ought to skew the results a bit. Looks like the top countries remain the same though https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/transport/road-safety-annual-...

The corresponding number of fatalities in USA is 115.9 per 1 million inhabitants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

Note that any stats about France should mention that French roads are some of the busiest in Europe, because we're at the crossroads of everything (lots of truck traffic coming from Germany / Portugal / Spain / Italy / The Netherlands on the highways for example).

Source for the above, but interactive.

Check out the infographic, where you can "turn back time" and see how much traffict deaths have been reduced. Europe goes from almost bright red to green/yellow over 15 years.

I'm assuming you meant to share the following: https://infogram.com/road_safety_progress_2016

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