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Comment by jmull | Hacker News Reader

The idea of finding ways to make animal food products without the moral issues and environmental impact is pretty interesting.

But there’s a much simpler way to avoid the moral issues and environmental impact of eating animals and animal products... eat vegetarian foods. Or simply, make a larger proportion of your diet vegetarian.

And don’t waste time trying to simulate animal products (veggie burgers, faux-turkey, etc.) It’ll never measure up in the end and distract from the really good and tasty vegetarian (or mostly vegetarian) stuff.

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>And don’t waste time trying to simulate animal products (veggie burgers, faux-turkey, etc.) It’ll never measure up in the end and distract from the really good and tasty vegetarian (or mostly vegetarian) stuff.

Man, I hear a lot of vegetarians say this... Just as a mental heuristic, you might be able to realize that your experience differs from the experiences of the people who make up the market for these products seeing as you were already able to go vegetarian...

If you need a high calorie, high protein diet, it's hard to go vegetarian- especially if you're allergic to one of the 7 common allergens (nuts, dairy, soy, wheat, eggs...) - an allergy to one makes it difficult, two or more almost impossible. The simulated animal products (beyond burgers, impossible burgers, memphis meats) are my great hope here and I buy the available ones as much as possible. But it's really difficult to reach at least 2.5k calories and 80g of protein per day without just shoveling spoonfuls of quinoa and beans or soylent or protein powder. It's hard to reach a lot of meat eaters if you're just talking about taste and not about macro nutrient requirements.

I'm not a vegetarian, BTW.

I'm sure you'll appreciate the chance to adjust your own mental heuristics. ;)

I'm just pointing out there are vegetarian dishes I enjoy every bit as much as a fat juicy steak, but not anything created and marketed as a meat substitute. I mention it because reasonable people can come to the conclusion that products created as animal food product substitutes are the best way to ease into eating a more vegetarian diet. But as far as I can tell that's not true.

>I'm just pointing out there are vegetarian dishes I enjoy every bit as much as a fat juicy steak, but not anything created and marketed as a meat substitute.

Yup. Not a vegetarian and I feel the same way.

Ditto.

I also don’t like anything peddled as a fake fruit or vegetable. (Ok, never had the latter, but fake fruit juice abounds. )

Abstinence has never worked whether it is sex or environmental sustainability. We have to find solutions that factor in human nature. Humans, as a species, will not stop having sex nor will they stop eating meat.

yes, factor in human nature but first understand what it is. there are 360 million vegetarians in India, for example. eating meat isn't coded in our DNA.

Actually it is in the DNA. The shape of our teeth are both for eating meat and vegetables. India is the only example I am aware of with a culture of vegetarianism. That begs the question, why? One possibility is religion.

Many human cultures include the concept of slavery, that doesn't mean it is morally acceptable.

Coded into our DNA doesn't mean it is morally acceptable.

That's like saying humans will never stop raping and murdering because of human nature so we have to be realistic and find solutions that don't involve just not raping and murdering people.

I'm confused, there have never been a large group of people who would rape and murder. I'm not convinced it's even an order of magnitude lower now than it was 1k years ago (or 10k). The largest majority have also been omnivores (I'd include insects, eggs, and fish) for almost the entirety of that time.

It doesn't look like we're going to either solve omnivorism or perfect non-violent world peace any time soon. On the other hand, I suppose a Matrix-like utopian hellscape could bring us both.

Not really. There is a very small percentage of the population that will always do those things, but the only time that happens on a large scale is if something more fundamental is wrong. Fix that fundamental problem (e.g. lack of food and water) and people behave better.

I'll add if you want a lot of the flavors of animal products back, MSG goes a long way.

Just last night I tried making vegetarian "beef" tacos with spiced and lightly baked quinoa as the beef, and with some MSG thrown in I swear it's better than real beef.

> And don’t waste time trying to simulate animal products (veggie burgers, faux-turkey, etc.) It’ll never measure up in the end and distract from the really good and tasty vegetarian (or mostly vegetarian) stuff.

I agree that the veggie meat substitutes don't do a good job of imitating meat, but (for example) Boca Burgers are actually pretty tasty on their own merits, despite being sold as a "meat replacement".

I tried going vegetarian a while back but I am naturally skinny and was loosing weight. I find meat makes for more interesting cooking.

And your suggestion of vegetarianism should really be vegan as caged hen eggs are one of the worst forms of factory farming I can think of

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