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Comment by johnchristopher | Hacker News Reader

I don't know. I don't like the new DD (4 and 5 versions) which seem to emulate online mmorpg game mechanics with no emphasis on storytelling. I'd like to play an good old DD session (hacking, slashing, adventuring and mystery solving) but nowadays when I and the gang play we go diceless with almost no rules.

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I think most groups just ignore 90% of the rules and focus on interactive story with chance elements. I've met very few people who play tabletop RPGs for the mechanics. It's actually a lot like scrum or lean manufacturing in the sense that blindly following the rules is the worst way to actually use the system. Though, I think nearly every D&D book says you're doing it wrong if you're not having fun.

> I've met very few people who play tabletop RPGs for the mechanics.

Most of the people I have played with were like that. Some branched out into tabletop boardgames, others just wanted to play the rules to "win" and the rest mostly gave up. This is the whole narratology vs ludology debate.

Agreed. The rules are there just to settle disputes or to corral players that want to test the limits of the DM's generosity.

As a DM, I kept the players in check by telling them that if they wanted to do such-and-such rule/thing, that the NPC's and monsters would also be able to do it. They backed down when they realized the rule would unbalance things.

AD&D 2nd Edition was as good as D&D ever got for me. THAC0 really wasn't that bad and they've really neglected a lot of the great settings since then. At least Ravenloft got some love finally.

5th edition is bearable and much less "play with minis" oriented than 4th was. 3/3.5 was the munchkin's wet dream.

If I want a storytelling game I reach for Burning Wheel/Torchbearer/Mouse Guard though -- depending on what kind of game my group wants to play.

And if people want high action, it's better to just run something else like Shadowrun, Feng Shui, or oldschool WoD games.

I felt the same about 4th edition. It was very streamlined and balanced, but everything felt too smooth and consistent (all classes used the same mechanics, for example). 5th edition, on the other hand, is very good. The rules remain simpler than in the old days of 3rd edition, but the classes and races feel distinct and charming again.

5th is way better than 4th though it is a bit nerfed and limits character customisation something CR avoids by a lot of home brew character options.

There are also some flat out nonsense rules i.e. I am standing next to some one on the floor holder a gun/heavy x bow - I am at a disadvantage to hit them!

When has D&D rules ever had an emphasis on storytelling?

Hell, trying to build a P&P RPG that focus on storytelling effectively kills the spirit of the game. Turning it into a game to tag team game masters.

Perhaps not an emphasis on story-telling, but definitely on role-playing. Back in my red and blue box days, and through years of 1st ed, the emphasis was on immersing yourself in character. Stories emerged from the setting and characters, but the focus, the fun, was about pretending to be a dwarf, elf, or wizard within that fantasy setting. That was layered on a game that was fundamentally about puzzle solving and resource management.

Later editions seemed to lose that, turning characters into game pieces and focusing far more on combat, tactics, and optimization and leaving less room for the roleplaying.

I'm sorry if you haven't played some of the better storytelling systems out there.

There are one-shot games like The Mountain Witch that are absolutely fantastic.

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