Comment by nopless | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nopless | Hacker News Reader

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I am curious about the real number of founders in this thread? It seems that most of the replies are focused on system criticism… and it's a completely false statement. Creating a startup in France is really easy to do if you do it well. Take an accountant and he will handle almost everything for you, from the creation to the run. Man Power is cheap compare to the USA. The only limitation seems to be the motivation… and to become a founder you are going to need a lot of motivation !

So what are the difficulties: 1. Market 2. Money

The initial market is small. This means that you need to go directly to international business. We have Europe but the point is that Countries are a little bit too patriot. From this point, addressing the USA market is really difficult without having a headquarter there, even with fully digitalized services and English native commercials. Don't know why but you can read Criteo founder's feedback on this point. Addressing China is almost impossible. So here is the point: to address Europe and USA you need huge funds.

Money is easy to get at the beginning and you have a lot of public helps on this phase. Then it's more difficult (>2M€). VC market is clearly not as developed as in the USA. That where most of the startup ends… Best case, you will raise money in the USA and move there. Otherwise you are looking for an exit.

That will be my conclusion. France is a very cheap place to buy a startup ! (An no such bureaucratic barriers).

Well, I’m a founder... French paperwork is incredibly stupid (beyond any necessary explanation), and, for no employee, I pay my accountant 2800€ to handle said paperwork.

Second, tax deduction and grants... There are full companies whose job is to get grants for others. But if you don’t know the right law or the right grant, you pay the higher tax. I’ve lost at least 150.000€ with that on my first 8 years, although I did have an accountant to advise me on this, which means I struggle on my first employee.

Last, the marxist culture. As long as you earn money, you’re assumed to be an asshole, so you constantly have to remind people how much donations you make and how much you’ve worked to earn the right to earn your own money. It’s quite unhealthy to say the least. For 100k€, I give 63k€ to accountant and various taxes, donate ~1k in money in average (and 1% products) and participate to local education. Yeah, I’m flagged as a selfish guy by outsiders (not interns, my interns love their job, my internships are way above average).

Besides, Macron said there are too many white males in IT, so you’re welcome to leave. Just to set the expectations.

Well 2,8k € per year (small startup) or per month (half time accountant) is nothing. How much will you pay in the USA?

Regarding fiscal stuff. I am afraid to say that this is the same in all countries... You better know the fiscal laws or request help from someone who knows. In any case, you are refering to 19k per year... It's not what we can call a strong showstopper!

Regarding 2 last points, it's clearly your point of view and I don't share it.

> Last, the marxist culture. As long as you earn money, you’re assumed to be an asshole, [...]

The above quote is simply false, it's nonsense, a HUGE generalization and a big exaggeration.

I'm french. And I'm 47, so I'm not (or no longer) the naive just out-of-school type...

The "marxist culture"? In France?? France is a very conservative society that leans a LOT to the "right". We are certainly more "social"-oriented than many countries, but the mindset is still _very_ conservative. Religion (Catholicism) is still quite present (even if people don't attend church), for instance attitudes towards sexuality are still pretty conservative, even if it's MUCH better than in my youth.

As for "earning money == asshole", that's also an exaggeration. What people here don't like is the people who put their money in your face (not always realizing they do so), and there can also be envy. And in the other direction: in my family there are some quite wealthy people, and THEIR attitude is really bad, they are extremely contemptuous towards everybody else (myself included) and always forget that not everybody has had all the advantages (financial, connnections, etc.) that they have had. Try to picture (a REAL story) when you are 15 years old, and your own cousin (also 15) boasts about what studies he's going to do and that you (his cousins) are all unworthy and beneath him.... (Note: ALL those other "inferior" cousins now have at least a 5 years university or equivalent diploma, mostly in STEM, some from the most elite french schools).

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