Comment by Razengan | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Razengan | Hacker News Reader

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Apple Watch is apparently the best selling watch (not just best selling smartwatch) in the world [0], with millions of users, and many copycats. Why shouldn’t it matter?

Of course, there’s only so much you can do and make on such a small screen, and it is an accessory rather than a “primary” device, but that is another issue altogether, if one.

I think it may even function as a motion control input for the rumored VR headset they’re planning.

And is anyone seriously trying to pass off Dark Mode as a MINOR feature? It can be a significant productivity and wellness boost for many people who have to look at a screen all day. Microsoft has struggled for decades to achieve universal consistency across their OS even for a single system theme, and they still haven’t gotten it right, whereas Apple is already doing seamless switching of UI appearances across many apps (this is more than just changing the colors; I’m currently watching their WWDC session about it, and the amount of thought they’ve put into it and how easy they’ve made it to implement is impressive imo.)

[0] http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-outsold-the-entire-swis...

I can believe that it is the best selling watch in the world.

People don't buy many watches, because they last a long time.

Last time I bought a watch was 7 years ago, and it still works fine. It's probably got another 3 years before I need to change the battery.

I think the last time my old man bought a watch was some time in the 80's or 90's.

> People don't buy many watches, because they last a long time.

Smartwatches can fix that problem. Obsolete in 1 year, battery failure in 2 years, incompatible with app ecosystem in 5 years.

My Series 2 Apple Watch still runs perfectly after 2 years of daily usage, and is compatible with all current apps as well as the upcoming watchOS 5.

How do we fix the problem of people seeing a problem in selling long lasting products ?

By changing the system to internalize extra costs of products with low lifetime. If companies can earn more by building products that last decades instead of years, they will do it. To make this work, you'd probably need to come up with a pretty convoluted taxation scheme.

Yes, I’m still using the Series 2 I bought two years ago, and have no desire or need for the newer series.

Best selling watch is believable, but who the heck buys and wears a watch for anything besides fashion these days? It's a totally niche market IMO.

I like having time easily accessible.

Though I have some philosophical and design issues with Apple, the biggest thing, the #1 requirement of any smartphone for me, is a notification LED for messages. I like seeing at a glance who or what is notifying me. Why is an LED so important? Because I want to identify a message quickly, without my phone always in my pocket (e.g. it's on my desk or next to the bed). With a watch accessory, for many, that need would go away.

Don’t underestimate where the watch trumps LEDs: discretness and gentleness. After owning one for a few years I can’t stand the abrasive sound of a vibrating cell phone on a table.

> the abrasive sound of a vibrating cell phone on a table.

Indeed. Waking up to that cacophony can mar one's entire day.

It's not even that: Timex probably outsells Apple watches 100:1, but they have a crazy variety of models instead of just 1 or 2.

My Apple Watch is surprisingly useful: I can figure out which conference room my next meeting is in with a single tap of the home screen, control music, etc. It honestly surprised me how much value I got out of it.

Same experience here - I got it essentially so I could have something being like "Hey buddy, you should be somewhere in 15 minutes..." but I've gotten a lot of use out of it.

I actually had exactly the same experience with my Pebble. I got it out of casual nerdy interest and was sure I'd use it for a couple of months and then pack it away.

Having notifications and basic functionality on your wrist is surprisingly useful though, and I used that watch until it broke (after Pebble went under unfortunately).

I've got a Ticwatch E on it's way as a replacement.

Pebble was nice - had one but its uncanny how similar the Palm Treo analogy goes - I loved my Treo till I got my iPhone. I loved my Pebble till I got my Apple watch.

Stuff the old ones do better (even today) but the Apple replacements are all that + constant years of OS upgrades and a stronger app ecosystem.

I hated watches - had a wrist ornament years ago and stopped wearing it because it interfered with my active life.

Apple's strategy is a blue-ocean one - they brought Apple users and active-lifestyle folks into a relative staid luxury goods market and (aside from an initial stumble with series-0 edition) co-opted the market and transformed it.

It wasn't exactly as powerful as the move to smartphones, and tech was moving there already but it's really great that my Apple watch is part of my work (2nd factor), lifestyle (Strava), and family (timer+music controls).

There's room for improvement but it gets the useful parts right.

I'm not a watch person, but bought a series 2 on sale last year. After a week I was cursing Apple because here is a device that I already feel lost without. Workout tracking is great, alerts are nice, quick views to upcoming meetings, and the list goes on. It ends up as a super useful device.

Also, niche? I literally see Apple Watches everywhere. At first I was surprised because all I read online was how the AW was a flop. I hope I can be part of a niche product as successful as the AW one day. /s

I would guess that watches are number one fashion item for men? A watch and a wedding ring are the two wearables that are acceptable for men even in the most conservative communities.

Health and fitness, and urgent notifications without bringing the phone out. It’s actua remarkably useful.

I use my Apple Watch (LTE) as a minimal smartphone.

I take the dog for a walk at lunchtime, or take an afternoon off. I can listen to music (Apple Music is crap) and receive texts. Clients can call me.

But I don’t get the normal smartphone distractions. And going places with just your keys, headphones and watch is really nice on my pockets too.

> Apple Watch is apparently the best selling watch (not just best selling smartwatch) in the world

That's rather "big fish in a small pond" in 2018, though, isn't it? It's like making the best-selling model of recumbent bicycle in the world.

If we consider a small pond to be worth billions of dollars, sure.

Even worse than that, because it glosses over how the other manufacturers sell a hundred times as much stuff, just categorized out into thousands of different models and trim levels.

Maybe another analogy would be some kind of specialized shoe.

It matters for Apple, for developers? not so much. Millions of users and not a single third party "killer" app.

The health and fitness stuff is the killer app there, imo. Once you get hooked on that you are hooked.

Which developer wants to miss out on serving potentially millions of users? What kind of “killer” app do you envision for a watch?

Being able to check messages, calls, Uber, flights, etc. right on my wrist are all killer applications for me, along with the fitness features of course.

I suspect the upcoming walkie-talkie will be fun too (something that should’ve been there from the start.)

Any potential the Watch has is clearly not enough for a strong app market to develop.

> Which developer wants to miss out on serving potentially millions of users?

You are forgetting that most developers already have millions of potential users on the iPhone with a market at least 30x bigger than the Watch's, and iOS has none of the limitations the Watch has.

Right now a Watch app requires an iPhone app, is hard to monetize, it cannot be sold on its own, it's slow and frustrate your users, etc. The only upsides are for Apple. It might sell really well because the core functionality provides enough value, but developers need to see a clear return for their efforts and right now is not there.

As others have said, think of your Apple Watch app as an extension to your iOS app's UI: it enhances your iOS app vs. the competition that doesn't offer the wrist UI.

I've seen users requesting a Watch version in reviews for iOS apps. Even I have chosen some apps in the past over others specifically because they offered a Watch app, like navigation apps and flight checkers etc.

As a user though, I must say that if "monetizing" and "selling on its own" are more important concerns for you than make your product/service a better experience for ME, then I probably wouldn't want to use any of your apps.

That is all well and good, but that is not the point. The point is the App Store is bleeding watch apps every day, and Apple needs to convince developers that the watch is worth it. Even you admit that the only reason for a developer to have a watch app is as a defensive move, and that is what needs to change.

The upside for you is that if you have a watch app and your competitor doesn't, customers are going to choose your product over theirs.

That is what in theory you think happens. What actually happens is that in very few app categories that is the case. For example, not a single game is losing market share to a competitor because they do not have a watch app.

You picked the worst example here: you really can't play (serious) games on your watch, so the comparison is invalid. But for a fitness app, or a messaging one, or a music service, I would significantly favor the service that has a watch counterpart, if not shun the other one outright.

I picked the biggest category of apps just to show you having a watch app is irrelevant when picking an iPhone app for everything in the app store but a very narrow set of categories, and you just demonstrated that. Yes, fitness is great, messaging somewhat ok, but what about the other millions of apps in the app store? what about a writing app? or a video editor? or a measuring app? or Dropbox?

Right now there is no reason for Youtube to make a watch app, and no reason for you to pick Vimeo over Youtube because it has a watch app.

I think you make your own point. There is no killer app, so why would developers care about millions of people with a watch they can’t do anything novel by a third party?

I've switched my app usage several times to ones that have better watch integration.

It's popular enough that, if your competitors make a watch app, a large userbase would begin to prefer using the competitor app.

The watch is a UI for iOS apps. There are zillions of iOS apps.

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