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Comment by rrauenza | Hacker News Reader

It seems no one uses their car ashtray anymore, either -- probably because it makes the car stink.

So they hold the cig outside their window, tap the ashes into the street, and often flick the butt into the road. I sometimes wonder how many lit cigs get dropped by accident into the road.

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I especially like this when I'm riding a motorcycle behind them. Nothing like people casually tossing flaming projectiles at you while you're on your way to work.

What cars still have ashtrays? I haven't seen one since 1990s models. I have several cars 2002 - 2004 and none of them have an ashtray, or a lighter.

Some car manufacturers sell ash trays as "add-on" items at the dealer since that space can be used more practically for the non-smoking majority.

2018 Mercedes Sprinter, for one. There's a cup holder insert that looks pretty much like an ashtray. 2005 Scion xB has a change holder that's shaped oddly like a thing one could flick ashes into. Came with the cigarette lighter, too.

2011 Nissan Leaf, however, assumes that if you're saving polar bears, you're not a smoker. There is a 12VDC outlet buried in there, but even if you bought a lighter to fit, I wouldn't try to get to it while driving. As far as I recall, there's no place to use as an ash tray.

VW did until around 2010, I think, and then they replaced it with an optional cupholder insert. The 2000's models hid it behind a plain black trap door, so you'd never see it if you didn't go poking around for it.

Wow! You're right -- and they don't come with lighters anymore either, at least not standard ...

I guess cigarettes are also to blame for our lousy 12v outlet design?

I guess cigarettes are also to blame for our lousy 12v outlet design?

Pretty much. There's some business school case study waiting there about network effects, or backcompat, or something. Someone a long time ago needed 12VDC for their new KarDooHickey(tm), but how is the user easily going to get 12V to the device? And here we are.

VWs and BMW motorcycles used/use a Hella plug that is similar to a lighter plug, but was actually designed to be used the way lighter plugs are now. Our '81 VW camper van has one on the dash. Sadly, despite being a better design for the purpose, BMW motorcycles are the only vehicles I now of that still use them. I can run a 75W electric jacket off those plugs, something I would not try with a lighter plug (it might work for a while, but not reliably).

Related fun fact: the 12V outlet in a car can often charge a phone faster than the USB ports. In my experience (2011 Subaru and 2014 Ford) the USB "chargers" can barely charge my iPhone 7 Plus, even using the official Apple charge cable. If I plug into the 12V outlet, it charges much faster — even if I'm simultaneously navigating and have the screen on.

USB 2.0 spec only guarantees 100 mA to be available before active negotiation (which is most likely not enough to do any charging at all), and 500 mA afterwards (which is very slow). For more, you're always relying on non-standard signaling of what the charger is capable of. So, it highly depends on the used charger whether your phone charges fast or not and you can probably easily find 12V chargers that charge slow and USB chargers that charge fast.

No doubt there are some USB ports that charge quickly — my point is that many of them scarcely charge at all. This is pretty dumb, since the whole point of a USB port in a car is to charge a phone or tablet. I would have guessed that they would put in a port that is capable of charging at least as fast as the 12V adaptor, but apparently this is not always true.

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