Comment by bodhibyte | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bodhibyte | Hacker News Reader

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I'm on a day 4 of a water-only fast and have completed a two-week medically supervised fast as well as many other shorter fast.

As an anecdote, I can say water-only fasting in combination with a high nutrient density plant-based diet has helped me overcome some serious allergies and other health conditions. As an added bonus, I've lost 65 pounds from my peak weight over the last few years and my weight has been stable. It's not a panacea, but I've found it to be a net benefit.

For those interested in a deeper dive on the benefits of water-only fasting and diets that try to mimic its benefits, as well as time-restricted feeding, see:

Valter Longo, Ph.D. on Fasting-Mimicking Diet & Fasting for Longevity, Cancer & Multiple Sclerosis [1]

Dr. Valter Longo on Resetting Autoimmunity and Rejuvenating Systems with Prolonged Fasting & the FMD [2]

Dr. Satchin Panda on Time-Restricted Feeding and Its Effects on Obesity, Muscle Mass & Heart Health [3]

Dr. Satchin Panda on Practical Implementation of Time-Restricted Eating & Shift Work Strategies [4]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6PyyatqJSE

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGFWRXEzz8

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R-eqJDQ2nU

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iywhaz5z0qs

[Edit to fix typos and formatting]

Very interesting to hear your successes in light of the immune cell turnover effect that prolonged fasting seems to have (Valter Longo's research).

FYI: these episodes also have a transcript and show notes not available at the youtube URL. Here they are...

[1] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo

[2] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo-2

[3] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda

[4] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2

This discussion may also be relevant to ketogenic diets where BHB is produced. See these two episodes focused on research on the ketogenic diet...

• https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/eric-verdin

• https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dominic-dagostino

Thanks for the transcripts! I'm extending my fasts to a minimum of 5 days from now on as, from what I've understood, the immune cell turnover appears to really start kicking in on day 4 and 5.

Given that Dr. Longo promotes a diet that contains some calorie intake (~500 daily), why did you decide on water only fast? I am trying to choose between those two options myself.

I've completed a few water fasts before I came across Dr. Longo work. The main reason he created the FMD is because they couldn't get people to volunteer for a water-only fast and then compliance was an issue. I'm now used to water-only fasting and hunger goes away completely by second or third day. I've heard anecdotally that hunger doesn't subside as well for everyone on the FMD as you're still eating, but haven't tried it myself.

This is the first time I'm working intensively during the fast (I worked through the weekend) and I've been incredibly productive. I also prepared really well: I was eating more than a pound of dark leafy green a day for the last month (in two high micronutrient smoothies for breakfast and lunch) and I used a sauna everyday for the week before the fast. I feel better today than I have in a long time, my energy is excellent.

That's not to say there aren't any side effects, I had some pretty bad lower back pain which made getting to sleep last night difficult, but I've come to expect it and it comes and goes throughout the day usually starting on the third day. I occasionally have some heart burn as well, but it hasn't been as bad this time. My first fast was the most difficult, but it was medically supervised at the True North Health Center in Santa Rosa, California. They supervise in-patient water-only fasts up to 40 days.

Thanks! Dark leafy greens make total sense, but why sauna is good before the fast? Also how long and how frequent your fasts usually are? 5 days 4 times a year as Dr Longo suggests or something else? BTW I did FMD twice and the feel of hunger doesn't go away. I also suspect this happens because of the constant food intake.

I had a recent flare up of my condition and sauna helps to alleviate the symptoms and shorten the duration. Water fasting also helps and this is the first time I have tried sauna before fasting. Perhaps coincidentally, this is the water-fast I've felt the best on. I don't fully understand the underlying mechanisms but there's some amazing research on how hyperthermic conditioning initiates a whole cascade of physiological adaptations which are partially mediated by heat-shock proteins, increase of growth hormone, and improving insulin sensitivity. For more information on benefits of hyperthermic conditioning, see:

1. https://tim.blog/2014/04/10/saunas-hyperthermic-conditioning...

From the article above:

Just a few of the physiological adaptations that occur are:

Improved cardiovascular mechanisms and lower heart rate.

Lower core body temperature during workload (surprise!)

Higher sweat rate and sweat sensitivity as a function of increased thermoregulatory control.

Increased blood flow to skeletal muscle (known as muscle perfusion) and other tissues.

Reduced rate of glycogen depletion due to improved muscle perfusion.

Increased red blood cell count (likely via erythropoietin).

Increased efficiency of oxygen transport to muscles.

Here are some related videos:

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOlM-wlNjM

As for duration, 3 to 5 days, though from now on I'm likely to do minimum 5 days fasts as after reviewing Dr Longo's research the immune benefits and increased autophagy appear to really kick in on the 4th and 5th days. Frequency, I would say I average 3 to 4 times a year. This frequency just happens to coincide with Dr Longo's recommendation as I only more recently came across his research.

Thanks for sharing that you also noticed that the hunger doesn't go away on Prolon.

[Edit formatting]

Thank you for the elaborated answer!

why are allergies supposed to be affected by fasting?

Valter Longo's work has shown that fasting causes a destruction of immune cells that get renewed from progenitors (absent the autoimmunity) after the refeeding phase. The mechanism has been shown to help with an animal model of multiple sclerosis called experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis.

It's a very elegant, most likely conserved mechanism that may generalize to virtually all diseases of autoimmunity and not just multiple sclerosis. However, that obviously needs to be proven clinically before you can say that and it might take a while.

Also, the conversion of animal research to human has another challenge: rodents have a faster metabolism. To have any hope of recapitulating those type of effects, you really have to go a while without food.

There seems to be a more medically safe way of probably tapping into mostly identical effects though, which is a "fasting-mimicking diet." Ultra low calorie, fits a specific macronutrient profile.

Read the show notes for this episode or watch the video... https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo-2

Thanks, couldn't have said it better myself.

I was initially pretty concerned about the safety of water-only fasting. It appeared so extreme. After spending two weeks fasting with others who are either ill with different conditions or very healthy, I realized that it's relatively safe given good medical supervision.

When fasting on my own, I haven't fasted longer than 5 days, and I know what to watch out for now:

- I check my blood pressure and heart rate every morning

- I get up very slowly (as you can get light headed and fall if you're not careful)

- I bathe without taking a hot shower or submerge my body in hot water as this can lead to low blood pressure as well.

thanks, but I still don't get: aren't most allergies due to hereditary factors? If so why would they be cured by resetting the immune system?

Some people are allergic to so many things, with such sensitivity, that nearly all foods contain some percentage of something they're allergic to (even if it's only trace amounts). In that case, consuming nothing but water effectively assures a food allergy-free experience for the duration of the fast. If they're allergic to things found in water as well, then I'm not sure what the best solution is.

I actually drink distilled or deionized water during my fasts. This is what was available on my first long fast and I've done it since.

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