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Comment by vmaier | Hacker News Reader

It may have been used here and there for centuries, but the massive inflationary use came in the last 5 years.

I'm not a native speaker, so I can't comment how the construct sounds to natives. To me, it sounds wrong, so I'd avoid communicating with people who demand this form of speech.

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Why is it so upsetting to you that you would go so far as to avoid people that use 'they?'

People using a particular phrasing in their own speech is not upsetting. People demanding I phrase my speech a particular way is upsetting - it suggests they're trying to control how I think.

I'm pretty sure this (as well as most of the other replies) is a total misunderstanding of what vmaier said. They avoid communicating with people who demand that they use "they". They don't care about other people who use "they".

To play devil's advocate why is it so upsetting that people don't want to use they?

(seriously just playing devil's advocate here)

It's not a big deal until somebody makes a big deal about it, on either side of the issue. What we have is one group making a HUGE deal about pronouns, and another equally making a HUGE deal about not using pronouns. At the same time each side is saying each other is horrible.

It's not a big deal until you make a big deal about it...

When has gender not been a big deal in human society?

We are not talking about gender. We are talking about pronouns.

We're specifically talking about English third-person singular pronouns. Why do you think that is?

A word...

Because they're typically militant social justice types. Not everyone wants to interact with people under that kind of microscope, it's tiring and life is short.

I live in the Bay Area and there are quite a few trans people in my social circles. You know how much stress it is being under that kind of microscope? Literally none whatsoever. That's because - contrary to what you hear in alt-right media - rational adults aren't looking to leap on every single misstatement. Sometimes I say "he" or "she" instead of "they", and no one bats an eye. It's understood that I'm trying to do right by the people around me, but also that it's not something most people are used to and mistakes happen.

In my experience, this "microscope" simply doesn't exist. Turns out it's pretty easy to be nice to people, and when you're acting in good faith, those same people are nice to you in return. Wild, huh?

That's great, I'm happy for you. I have not said that any particular group are all social justice types, I'm well aware that many people in all kinds of communities are perfectly rational human beings and interact in a perfectly rational way.

Claiming that the social justice warrior enclaves don't exist, however, ignores fact.

Again, I live and work in the Bay Area. I run errands in Berkeley. I have friends who live in communes. And in all my stomping about, I've never encountered these hordes of people waiting to pounce on my straight white male mistakes. Again, people can tell when you intend to be nice to them and tend to react accordingly.

Yes, there are individual people who get hyper-offended when you say something wrong. I've been chastised for not admitting that vaccines are a big government conspiracy. I've even been in arguments with social injustice warriors who were pissed off about being asked to use the singular pronoun "they". There are all types in the world.

By trying to impose such restriction on the use of 'they' as a singular (what about 'you' short for "you all" as plural?), you are creating conflict of your own rather than letting life go on.

Those who see the world in terms of good and evil tend to do more evil themselves. Take care that your perception of militancy does not similarly take over your own effect on the world.

Peace.

I don't impose anything on anyone. I don't restrict what anyone says. I don't really care all that much what other people want to say or do within at least some degree of reasonableness.

I simply choose not to put myself in a position where I must interact with those who want to tell me how I must use a language that predates their existence by thousands of years.

What currently living language is spoken in a way that would be intelligble to speakers of the language with the same name "thousands of years" ago.

Modern English didn't even come about till the 14th century

This is the weirdest grandstand ever. Why not take the opportunity to better learn the language instead of avoiding it?

I'm not a native speaker of French, but what I know makes various French Creole languages sound wrong. I wouldn't think to avoid speaking to someone who spoke a French Creole because I might feel like they're not talking grammatically correct French.

The construct has been used incorrectly for many years, to the point that most people hear it and don't shudder over it anymore even though it's incorrect.

As a non-native speaker, you learned it correctly and thus it sounds wrong once you've actually paid attention to it and studied it. Many native speakers never really study grammar and don't understand it -- I'm no exception, I took a course years ago but can't quote grammar rules and go almost exclusively on how things sound to my native ear. It makes it interesting at times when my non-native spouse asks me "why do you say it that way" and I have to research the rule so I can explain it properly or fix my incorrect impressions.

> The construct has been used incorrectly for many years, to the point that most people hear it and don't shudder over it anymore even though it's incorrect.

You're contradicting yourself. If most people don't shudder over it, and people understand what is being communicated when it is used, then it is correct. Any opinion stating that it is incorrect would have to rely on authoritative sources, which do not exist in the English language.

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