Nice money at those big American companies. In Australia, you have to become a plumber to get to those levels :-)
Even a lot of unskilled jobs pay really well in Australia. I have a friend who works for Aldi in their distribution centre as a general worker, and he's on $35 per hour (only 6 hour shifts though, I think), plus when he's rostered on Sunday he goes up to $70 an hour.
Anecdotally, as a software developer in Melbourne for a small company, with 2 years experience, I'm on AU$75k + super, which is a pretty comfortable wage. Coming from NZ$42k (and only 3% super) back in New Zealand, it was certainly a nice payrise.
2013 $20k (freelance) 100+ clients
2014 $75k (salary + super) 100+ employees
2015 $70k (salary + super) ~50 employees
2016 $120k (freelance) 8 clients
2017 $70k (salary + super) 3 employees
2018 $90k (salary + super) ~15 employees
2016 was by far my best year, still living at home (with parents) and after tax almost all of it went into savings.
At this stage I plan negotiating for $120k after christmas which I think is inline with my peers.
And for those talking about $4 coffee's, most places I know give discount if you BYO cup!
The pay tends to start off a lot lower here compared to the hot spots in the US but somewhat catches up from what I’ve seen.
I always get called elitist/out-of-touch when I point this out, but it's really true that most people working in trades do $50k with mediocre benefits.
Everyone always lashes out at this with anecdata, but both the hard data from Labor and the 15+ datapoints I have personally all seem to agree that $60k is "really good", and that's with overtime. Statistically, for every wealthy plumber/small business owner pulling down 100k+, there are a lot of folks pulling down $50k or less working for the man.
Other downsides: The trades are extremely sensitive to certain types of recessions. And most trades are hard on your body. Plumber is actually one of the better trades from that perspective. Even stuff like welding and machining, which outsides think of as less hard on your body, are usually brutal. If the setup was such that they don't need you carrying stuff, going up and down stairs, etc. all day -- ie. if you could just stand in one place and weld/cnc without doing back-breaking labor -- then they'd have automated the work already.
This might all be specific to the two labor markets I know most well, but... sigh for smart kids, going to college for an in-demand STEM degree is still a great life choice and probably much higher ROI than a trade. And saying so isn't elitist.
Driving truck also seems to do better over the past two decades than most trades. Still sensitive to recessions, but much less so. None of my trucker relatives/friends have had bouts of unemployment since 2008, but all the construction and manufacturing trades have been in and out of work pretty much continually since 2009 (maybe things got better around late 2015)
If college isn't for your kids, have them also consider healthcare. Might be more stable during recessions and less hard on their body. The only downside is that there are fewer options for entrepreneurial endeavors than in the trades. Also, outside of large cities, there's only one or two dominant employers and that holds down wages. But the same is true in tech and trades.
> Most tradies here have their own business
Maybe this really is true in Australia. IDK. People say this a lot in the USA, but both statistics and personal anecdata indicate it's complete bullshit. Starting a business is hard. Getting the money to start up is hard. Handling cash flow is hard. Handling everything from deadbeat clients to litigious clients is hard.
> + the cash jobs that they don't declare on tax.
Software engineers can also make $$$ by committing tax fraud and other crimes.
In Melbourne, I graduated school in 1997. With a bachelor and a PhD and a few years in R&D in biotech I am able to rent in the inner city.
My neighbour is a
1) a tradie my age,
2) owns the house and has another investment property,
3) and finishes work at 3pm to hang with his three kids.
How much does a cup of coffee go for in Au?
And developers can certainly make over 100/hr, but in my experience that would mean contracting/consulting as a specialist with at least 5 years experience in a given technology.
can certainly hit $aud 100 / hour and upwards for full-time contract gigs with bigcos (banks, finance, telcos). can hit that with less than 5 years experience.
if the client knows what they're doing they may also assess for ability, not just years experience. but at least some big clients don't know what they're doing and are overrun with whatever resources of varying ability bodyshops manage to palm off onto their projects.
1. $110 CAD ($83 USD)/h
2. I set my own schedule, both weekly and time off (self-employed).
3. Zero stress: no one's ever stressed coming in, and I get to directly help people in pain. These people tend to be very neat and I have an hour to get to know them and the interesting lives they lead. It's very fulfilling.
Since starting my current practice in Vancouver six years ago I've made $300,000 CAD ($230,000 USD) total, working an average of 3.5 months/year (or, more accurately, averaging 8 months/year, 3.5 days/week). It's paid off my BSc student loan and covered an expensive MSc that I was able to finance while simultaneously completing it full-time in Europe for two years. I'm now able to turn my focus to helping my family get out of debt.
I should add that I've worked the same in Toronto, Nova Scotia, Montreal, and Yellowknife, and nowhere was it this good. I'm also quite good at what I do and am a real people person -- these are key. And a white male as well, but our clinic is made up primarily of ladies who make the same as me, just less in total as I work longer -- 8-10h compared to their 5-7h days.
I'm so happy this conversation was started. I wish I could have read this post before diving headlong into student loan debts the first decade of my adult life.
Isn't stress a reason to go get a massage?
I more than doubled my salary moving from the UK (Bristol) to Australia (Sydney), while my living costs only went up a little higher.
Comparing Bristol's prices to Sydney's:
Rent: Sydney is maybe 50% more expensive. There is no council tax in Sydney, and the houses are bigger.
Food: In Sydney, groceries are usually more expensive (prices seem to be seasonal), but eating out is cheaper. The overall variety of food is better in Sydney, but Indian food is better in Bristol.
Booze: Beer is maybe 30% more expensive in Sydney, there is much less variety, and the pubs are less cozy. Wine is much cheaper and better in Sydney.
Bills: gas and electricity bills are both much, much cheaper in Sydney.
Transport: I don't own a car. Public transport is better and cheaper in Sydney than Bristol.
Food is a lot more expensive - but I guess if you eat cheaply or take advantage of office perks it could get the cost down.
Alcohol / going out is a lot more expensive.
Fuel / public transport is cheaper (but public transport is not as good in Sydney).
Tax is slightly less with no National Insurance to pay, and the employer is not paying it an sticking that into your Superannuation (Pension) instead.
From what I've seen I actually think we are lucky to have the highest dev salaries outside of the US. Which is kind of suprisingly in a way, because we don't have too many large internet companies headquartered here and the startup scene isn't huge.