Comment by bobcallme | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bobcallme | Hacker News Reader

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> ...at the school where I teach.

You are partially responsible for this. Why is it the first response to blame everyone else but it is never the fault of those who are on the front lines (teachers, parents, people in the community)? I am stick and tired of the parents who can't F' talk to their kids ("the government needs to do more!"), school administrators who are not doing their job (last time I checked, having any tobacco / nicotine products on school grounds is quite illegal for both students and faculty : with fines and possible jail time) and the fact that there are much more dire issues in many communities that need to be addressed (maybe the opioid and Heroin epidemic?). The fact that there are much more harmful things that teens can get a hold of should be a priority over this FUD.

> The media has also failed it’s obligations. Most news articles are practically advertisements for e-cigarettes, promoting them as smoking cessation tools and practically harmless compared to other tobacco products. They are not FDA approved and the evidence for their efficacy and safety is sketchy at best.

The media has no obligation to you or me to do anything. E-cigarettes have helped quite a few people I know stop smoking (to the point that they don't even vape anymore). Running factually inaccurate ads like this [1] NSFW is much more harmful than any AD sponsored by big tobacco / e-cigarette companies. Lying to teens is not going to have the desired effect that you are looking for and it's going to make them want to do the opposite. As for the health effects, it is going to be just like anything else that can have undesired / dangerous substances if it comes from a questionable source. I'm sure that e-cigarettes are much better than inhaling traditional combustible cigarettes (I'm not denying that there could be health issues if use continued over X time).

[1] NSFW FDA AD / The Real Cost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYuyS1Oq8gY

Edit: missing word

> You are partially responsible for this. Why is it the first response to blame everyone else but it is never the fault of those who are on the front lines (teachers, parents, people in the community)?

The article explicitly discusses how easy it is for teenagers to vape in secret, without parents or teachers knowing. "Matt" in the article was able to keep it a secret from his parents for two years. When his parents found out, they absolutely did talk to him. But he was already an addict.

> having any tobacco / nicotine products on school grounds is quite illegal for both students and faculty : with fines and possible jail time

I don't know where you live, but this certainlky isn't true everywhere. Smoking generally isn't allowed in school buildings anymore (possibly there may be a few schools with old-school faculty smoking lounges, I don't know), but many or most places allow faculty to smoke outside.

This of course ignores the problem with vaping anyway - it's much harder to detect. There's no smoke smell, and vapers often believe they have a right to vape anywhere and everywhere, because "it's not smoke." This is certainly true for kids in school. The article even mentions how the teenagers were avoiding being caught. What are you going to do, strip search every day?

> E-cigarettes have helped quite a few people I know stop smoking

That's great. That doesn't excuse their easy availability and the clear marketing toward children. That's how the media and government need to be held accountable.

> there are much more dire issues in many communities that need to be addressed (maybe the opioid and Heroin epidemic?).

That there are more dire issues doesn't mean we can't tackle less dire ones. The real tragedy is if the government had been on the ball, this would have never been a problem in the first place. E-cigs should have been much more heavily restricted, no flavorings allowed, etc., then people could have still quit smoking and we wouldn't have a teenage nicotine addiction epidemic. As it is, e-cigs have been sold as something basically completely safe and fun, and consequently millions of children are now addicts.

Also, from the article:

> “Nicotine may disrupt the formation of circuits in the brain that control attention and learning,” said Dr. Rachel Boykan, a clinical associate professor of pediatrics at Stony Brook University School of Medicine and an executive member of the American Academy of Pediatrics’ section on tobacco control. “And there is a higher risk of them subsequently becoming tobacco smokers.”

E-cigarettes helped your friends stop smoking. Great! But apparently they're helping other people start.

> That's great. That doesn't excuse their easy availability and the clear marketing toward children. That's how the media and government need to be held accountable.

Care to provide a link or example? Because I have yet to see any. Every convenience store that I have been in has most tobacco products hidden and any ADs have just text and no pictures.

> That there are more dire issues doesn't mean we can't tackle less dire ones. The real tragedy is if the government had been on the ball, this would have never been a problem in the first place. E-cigs should have been much more heavily restricted, no flavorings allowed, etc., then people could have still quit smoking and we wouldn't have a teenage nicotine addiction epidemic. As it is, e-cigs have been sold as something basically completely safe and fun, and consequently millions of children are now addicts.

My personal opinion is that you can't expect the government to protect me or you from every single threat. Adding more restrictions, creating a black market and lying is not going to help address this. I still want to see example of ADs that appear to be targeting children to buy e-cigarettes.

> E-cigarettes helped your friends stop smoking. Great! But apparently they're helping other people start.

So, the real question is WHERE are they getting them since all sources require an ID to get them and making them more illegal or difficult to get most likely won't stop them from getting them.

My opinion is that energy would be better spent at addressing immediate health issues and this issue could have been avoided if parents + school administrators + the community were more involved. I don't buy "we could not smell it" since most vaping stuff does have a sweet smell to it.

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