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Comment by dgut | Hacker News Reader

Sure, but any mentally healthy person can quit without too much trouble if they decide to. The problem is when the person isn't mentally healthy, in such case nicotine might even alleviate the suffering so quitting becomes really hard.

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That is just false. Nicotine has physical withdrawal symptoms that a user suffers regardless of their mental health. What makes it hard to quit is suffering the withdrawal symptoms. I think you’re conflating “mental health” with willpower and the ability to stoically suffer through illness.

"Willpower" and the "ability to stoically suffer" through illness is a product of exactly mental health.

Then you believe that the majority of all smokers are not mentally healthy?

As a former smoker and current person above their ideal weight who goes to the gym and studies less than they ideally would all of those things are down to prioritises.

Nicotine is fantastic, like caffeine and alcohol, running or weightlifting. Sometimes you have other priorities and you give up something pleasant because it has bad consequences.

Vaping is nicer and safer than smoking, which I would not recommend anyone start, for the wretched smell alone never mind the health effects. If I ever feel like nicotine again I’ll buy a vape again.

I do believe most smokers today are troubled by something, yes. In the past, it was culturally acceptable but not so much anymore (especially in Northern Europe, I can't really talk for the US). Most people who are bothered by something have a sort obsessive habit, e.g shaking one leg or a finger, touching his hair, smoking, chewing something, eating salty or sugary things. Just an observation.

There is this thing called physical dependence. Your body physically becomes addicted. Physically. And besides if that’s your explanation everyone has mental issues

Nicotine withdrawal symptoms aren't that extreme though (I've been there). And yes, more people than you imagine have mental issues, not necessarily of such character that they have high life-altering consequences. Humans are strong and small mental issues mostly go unnoticed because they aren't evident unless you're a careful observer.

What a conceited, naive thing to say. Try developing some compassion by talking to people whose experience directly contradicts this viewpoint.

I saw an entire country (Norway) quit smoking in a couple of years, family members, friends, and myself. It became culturally unacceptable. Today only people at the bottom of society smoke. Troubled teenagers started using something called "snus" instead because they think it's cool.

An entire country? 11% of adults in Norway still smoke daily, while 12% used snus daily in 2017[0]. In 2015, 22% of adults in Norway smoked, while 14% used smokeless tobacco e.g. snus[1].

Are you classifying ~525,000 people as being from the "bottom of society"? What counts as the "bottom of society"?

I think the anecdotal evidence and opinions you are presenting as fact throughout this thread are earning you downvotes.

[0]: https://www.ssb.no/en/royk [1]: https://tobaccoatlas.org/country/norway/

First, you write 11% of adults smoke, then go on to write that ~525,000 of the population smokes. 11% of the adult population makes a much smaller number than that. The number of people who smoke daily among 16-24y olds is 3% and 15% for the age group 55-64y [1]. Of those who used to smoke, 80% don't use any nicotine products anymore [2]. The reduction the last years in the numbers of smokers was so large everybody knew at least one close family member in the process of quitting. According to the numbers, most smokers have low education and earn less [3]. As this article points out:

> Samtidig er det vist at relativ fattigdom øker kronisk stress, som igjen fører til mer røyking.

Translation: At the same time, it is shown that relative poverty increases chronic stress, which in turn leads to more smoking. (I thought this was a pretty well-known fact).

[1] https://www.ssb.no/statbank/table/05307/chartViewLine/

[2] https://www.ssb.no/helse/artikler-og-publikasjoner/fire-av-f...

[3] https://www.fhi.no/ml/royking/hvorfor-har-roykevanene-endret...

Thank you for finally providing some statistics to back up your ad hominen attacks on the populace who smoke.

It's interesting to see those additional statistics.

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