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Comment by rb808 | Hacker News Reader

Its amazing to me how many shops I walk past are completely empty these days. I don't know how they can afford to keep the lights on, let alone stock the place.

I myself swore I'd never buy clothes and shoes online, but have started doing this too. Its so much easier and cheaper.

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All of this will have repercussions to the commercial real estate space. Who's going pay for the mortgage if there is hardly any tenant? Who's going to buy any more commercial space from the banks that forecloses them?

Commercial real estate is already feeling the effects and trying to figure out how to react. My main street is turning what was formerly used as retail space into microbrew beer venues and experiences like escape rooms and craft shops where people do things together. I'm not convinced it is a bad thing that we no longer waste so much space on retail.

You also described the main street where I am. I think it's a really good thing. Reclaim those spaces for things that cannot be done online.

That’s really interesting. You described exactly the street where my office is.

Suburban/rural-ish malls are a particular problem because they're based around the idea of anchor tenants (like Sears) who draw people into malls with lots of smaller shops that people mostly go to because they're already in the mall for the anchor store.

I have a friend who follows retail for a financial firm. She's of the opinion that the bloodletting in retail is just getting started.

>All of this will have repercussions to the commercial real estate space. Who's going pay for the mortgage if there is hardly any tenant?

Converting them to residential could be one solution. With climate change intensifying weather events, an arcology where you can live, have a few shops, and a food court without ever going outside could be quite useful.

The malls going under aren't in the places where real estate is super-scarce. High-end urban malls are actually doing quite well. To a first approximation, no one in a suburb/exurb/small city wants to live (or can afford to) live in some corporate arcology.

"I myself swore I'd never buy clothes and shoes online, but have started doing this too. Its so much easier and cheaper."

The main reason I don't buy shoes online is because it's so difficult to find a good fit.

In a store I can easily and quickly try on a whole bunch of shoes, and if none of them fit or I don't like them, all I do is just walk out of the store.

With online shoe purchases, I have to not only wait for delivery but then if they don't fit I have to send them back. Also, I've heard of Amazon closing people's accounts when they made too many returns, so even though Amazon has a great return policy, I am wary of trying on and returning too many shoes. I'd just rather shop in a brick and mortar store when none of this is an issue.

As for Payless, I love them. I could find much cheaper shoes there than anywhere else in my area, and I had no complaints about the quality of the shoes I bought. Their closure means I'll have to pay more for shoes, which is something I can ill afford to do.

Not to shill, but with Amazon Wardrobe, they explicitly expect you to send some of the products back. The other differences are that you are not billed until you decide what to keep and (to me, the biggest innovation), they use a box that is perforated with peel-and-stick strips for you to use to mail back and also include a pre-printed return label.

That last one is huge for me because the local UPS store got wise to Amazon returns and now charges $1.50 for the first printout, but only if you email them, which neatly captures everyone who needs to print a return label, but doesn't have a printer of their own.

I recently lost a lot of weight and so I wasn't sure what size I was for a lot of items. So I just ordered a couple different sizes and sent back the ones that didn't fit. Such a better experience than trying to find multiple sizes of the same thing in a store, then going to the dressing room where everything is counted because I'm assumed to be a criminal.

Biggest down side is that they use their very lowest priority and slowest shipping for it. But for me, clothes are rarely urgent.

If you are buying mens clothing, the sizes are actually the relevant measurements in inches, so getting the right size is not that hard (you may only need to order two sizes).

But I completely agree with you about retail treating me like a criminal: nobody has counted things going into the dressing room yet, but it is getting more and more difficult to be allowed to leave the stores without purchase anymore.

A small (but not trivial) amount of people actually find buying shoes online much easier than in store, precisely because of issues finding a fit. My shoe size is 16; I'm lucky if a physical store has a single item that matches my size.

Sometimes I'll buy my first pair of a certain shoe at a brick and mortar store, and then buy the exact same size of the same exact model on Amazon for awhile.

There are several in-person alternatives. DSW is larger and cleaner than Payless, and also tends to have better brands. They also do a great job with coupons and sales. Kohl’s, the coupon/sale master, also sells shoes. And Nordstrom Rack has a good selection as well.

Then there are outlet malls—many brands to choose from.

Personally I have felt for a while that DSW was a much better option than Payless.

> I myself swore I'd never buy clothes and shoes online

Curious, what made you swear you would never do that?

not the person you responded to, but someone with a similar perspective. i have a fairly tricky-to-fit body shape and prefer to try things on in person, since many things in my size don't actually look right on me. same goes for shoes - i fluctuate between about three sizes depending on brand and shoe type, so it's a pain to figure out which one fits without testing them out.

online shopping has gotten a lot easier these days, though, since most retailers post exact measurements and many also offer free returns.

Yep. I'm so surprised there haven't more solutions to get even short term tenants in these places. Pop-up shops on the cheap until a longer term tenant signs.

Then I'm also surprised how many salons and banks however can keep filling in these empty stores.

Commercial property owners are always reticent to rent at lower prices. They also usually say that turn over is too expensive to let just anyone rent. I can't imagine it being more expensive than vacancy.

We have 3 shoe stores in my town of ~30k (not sure how they can continue), but it seems e-commerce is bringing more efficiency to the market and allowing cheaper pricing.

Edit: E-commerce is projected to increase to 15% of retail sales by 2021.

It never ceases to amaze me how early we are in the internet revolution. It often feels like e-commerce makes up 50% of retail sales. The transformations we've observed over the past decade are whispers.

We shouldn't need cheaper pricing. We should have far less inflation.

I recently bought a $15 pair of shoes at Payless. They were fantastic. That said, I'm not sure $15 shoes were even a thing when I was a kid in the early 90s when my parents used to buy me Payless shoes then.

Adjusting for inflation, my shoes would have cost $8.43 in 1992.

That's insane. These products are INSANELY inexpensive. But nobody buys cheap cars or shoes anymore, do they? Gotta get them social media likes even if it means 72 month payment plans or installment plans on SHOES.

We are so screwed.

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