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Comment by derefr | Hacker News Reader

You'd think, if they were powerful enough to affect tax law, they'd lobby for getting taxes included in prices, the way they are in most of Europe. That'd make a lot of people hate taxes—especially the people who have to constantly re-tag merchandise.

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It's actually the opposite. The groups against taxes want taxes visible and not embedded into the price of a product. That means consumers are aware how much of what they're paying is the sales tax portion. Not saying I personally agree, just pointing out what the thinking is.

Actually, it works the other way around: when I'm in Europe the price on display is the gross price (including VAT), so I kind of get used to it.

In US when I go shopping the price on display is net price, and then, when I get to register, they add sales tax to it, which is irritating, but it makes it painfully obvious who's to blame for that difference (i.e. government).

One thing that would make people hate taxes even more is if we got rid of tax witholding by employers. Let every employee receive full, gross salary to their bank account, and then make wire transfer to IRS by themselves.

Another funny thing: here in California, when I go to arestaurant there's often a disclaimer at the bottom of the menu: "To support minimum wage increase we add 3% surcharge to each bill"

I've lived in California my entire life and have never seen "minimum wage surcharge" on a menu or receipt.

I've only seen it in cities that have a higher minimum wage than state.

In San Diego it only seems to be at the more expensive end of the restaurant business. They put a sob-story on the menu explaining how they are going to add 3% to my check or else the minimum wage law will drive them out of business. Unfortunately it has the opposite effect for me and makes me think twice about supporting a business who will charge me $40+ for an entree but admit to not paying their staff a living wage.

Yeah I can't imagine taking that kind of bullshit argument seriously. Did the owner complain about finding nearby parking for his Bugatti, too?

Maybe some companies should add a disclaimer "Our CEO needs a new yacht surcharge" to achieve full disclosure :-)

It’s not all of California. It’s just in the places with their own higher minimum wage like SF or LA. I’ve seen it a bunch of times, mostly at small family owned restaurants.

>It’s not all of California. It’s just in the places with their own higher minimum wage like SF or LA. I’ve seen it a bunch of times, mostly at small family owned restaurants.

if the menu lists a price for a dish, how is it legal to tack on an extra 3% because the owner doesn't like the minimum wage in SF?

Yea I've always wondered that. It's supposed to be included in prices (unlike sales taxes) like any other cost, so how are they able to legally get away with advertising a lower cost than they charge? Would it be similar (from a legal perspective) if they added an electricity surcharge or a dishwashing surcharge and lowered their menu prices accordingly?

I'm all for more transparency of taxes for the end-payer, but I'm curious about this from a legal perspective.

Someone replied with an article that they were legal, but that article mentioned the surcharge must be disclosed prior to ordering. I suspect there's wiggle room for a good lawyer if they're using mouseprint or not making sure ordering services like Grubhub accurately disclose the charge.

In San Diego the surcharges were deemed legal: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/restaurants/sd...

It's pretty common, and not just in California. Here are some examples from WA.

http://www.workingwa.org/action/surcharge/list

It's becoming more and more common, at least in the Bay Area. I know several places in downtown Palo Alto that do this.

I'm European. What this does is that it hides the tax and people complain about price increases when the tax increases. Every single EU libertarian would prefer the US way. BTW what the heck are you doing with your tax rates that you'd have to constantly re-tag? That's completely a non-problem over here.

Yeah if merchandise is sitting on a retail shelf long enough that the tax changes multiple times before it's sold, you need to rethink your stocking choices.

I don’t see why we can’t have both. Have one price that is the grand total, and in a smaller font, display how much of that grand total is the tax. That way people know how much the thing will cost upfront, and also know the tax amount.

In the USA, I have no idea. In the EU, politicians don't want that because that'd surely lead to a revolution, especially in the east.

Sales tax in the USA differs across states, and even across counties. So it could change fairly regularly.

VAT differs wildly across EU countries, including whole different schemas of the tax. And not only that, we also speak two dozens of languages. What you're saying is simply not a problem - come and see. I've never even thought that it could be seen as a problem because the solution (don't move tags, just the product) is so obvious.

Are you referring to VAT? If so, how does this necessitate "constantly re-tag merchandise"? In Denmark the VAT is the same for all goods, and was last changed in 1992 [0].

[0] https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moms

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