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Comment by HillaryBriss | Hacker News Reader

>"They built those things to last, last a lifetime," Hustwit says. "And if they did break, they built them to be repaired very easily."

You know. Kind of like a MacBook.

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I don't have much experience with MacBooks, but ThinkPads (at least certain lines) are very much of this nature. I have a 2008 ThinkPad which is still usable and in great condition (I've upgraded various things on it, which the design also makes relatively easy).

In the relative scheme of things, ThinkPads are easier to repair/upgrade than other computers, but still colossally wasteful compared to desktops and many non-computer devices. There's no way to take an old ThinkPad and add anything to the motherboard without replacing it entirely. Today's devices have even more forced-obsolescence, wtih DRM-locked BIOSes to stop upgrading components, NVidia Tegra processors won't even let you upgrade the OS. With the ubiquity of copyright enforcement, devices are increasingly forced to comply with remote deletion of copyrighted works. OpenWRT may soon become illegal under FCC rules.

The T-series can have the CPU upgraded at least. I'm not convinced they're any more wasteful than desktops, which will need upgraded motherboards after some time.

Also, compared to non-computer electronic devices, I'd say ThinkPads fare well. Microwaves don't last 10 years anymore, for example.

My point is that if something goes wrong as things often do with laptops, it's very difficult to replace it when it's all on one motherboard. I've got an old Thinkpad which is a beast and mostly works, but it has a problem where the power supply stops occasionally and beeps at me. If it were a desktop I could simply replace the PSU, which is modular and standardized. Such is not the case with laptops, and there's very little interoperability except for some components. Since the golden era of ThinkPads, most machines have gotten more and more disposable and locked-down, with soldered-on memory and other longevity compromises to reach a smaller form factor.

I have long been looking for notebooks where the CPU can be upgraded. Do you have any specific model/manufacturing year where this is possible?

T430, W530 at least. See, https://medium.com/@n4ru/the-definitive-t430-modding-guide-3... , for instance.

This is so true. I just replaced the screen on my x230; the new screen cost $75 on ebay, the benzel came off with two screws, the screen itself with 4 screws (all normal philips) and one easily undone connector. 5 minutes to do the whole job.

Where / how do you upgrade?

At home. The ThinkPads come with comprehensive manuals and one can easily (by undoing one screw) change the drive, (by undoing a couple of screws) upgrade memory, (by undoing a few screws) replace the screen, (by undoing a few more screws) replace the keyboard and/or access the motherboard.

I've not taken a thinkpad apart for a long time - but my memory of upgrading them is a great one. Yes, they have the technical manuals easily available - but they had the information embedded in their molds for the parts. e.g. If you wanted to 'upgrade the memory' you just removed every screw that had a 'memory logo' next to the screw and then wiggled stuff to see what moved. Eventually you'd see a nice empty memory slot.

Yes, that's true. I think the main thing I actually referred to the manual for was the screen (esp. on the X200 where it was a bit trickier; later models are easier). The other bits are more or less intuitive, aided by the icons as you point out.

Thanks. I've done basics (mem, HDD/SSD), not keyboard or display.

I agree regarding the original MBP and MacBooks. RAM and batteries were easily replaceable. The keyboard, hard disk and several other components were replaceable with a little bit of effort.

I don’t believe any of that is true of Apples current lineup.

This [edit for clarity: the GP] appears to be intended to be sarcastic. You’re right, but you may have missed the sarcasm, which we know transmits poorly over text-based mediums.

you're right. thanks.

and yet, it's interesting/educational to me that the ambiguity elicited differing responses depending upon the model year of the MBP. the things used to be maintainable!

but, nowadays, when a single key starts malfunctioning, it's a pretty significant repair job, a big problem.

I miss the old macbookpros (and by old I mean 2011 I think ? )

You could replace the battery, RAM, hard drive, optical drive and maybe even CPU (I haven't tried that last one) yourself, with just a screwdriver.

Well I suppose there is not much stopping you from still using one of those, right? Except the technology is quite outdated now, so in a way it is a bit moot how maintainable the hardware is, beyond a certain point. Unless they went an extra step, and made things like the processor or even the motherboard upgradeable.

I prefer PCs for not locking software to the platform. I can still run Linux on my 386.

I'm writing this on a 2008 MacBook which I've replaced the HD and optical drive with ssd, upgraded the RAM and repeatedly replaced battery. If I could update the CPU and screen I would.

If you can update the screen... or at least replace it if it breaks. IIRC there are 3rd party screens for it.

Yes, replacements can be had. What I would really like is an upgrade...ie a 1080p screen over the current 1280x800, and perhaps a faster CPU and motherboard. The battery chemistry also leaves something to be desired.

I saw a huge difference upgrading the HD. Enough so, that it's still a usable machine that I tend to gravitate towards more than my 13" Dell XPS with 4k screen.

/s?

Apple are one of the worst offenders

I bought a MacBook Pro and a Chromebook 5 years ago. Guess which one I've had to replace the hard drive twice and has slowly become unusable over the course of several OS upgrades and which is just as good as the day I bought it?

Chromebook is still ticking, MacBook I gave away. Pretty shameful for being 10x the price of the chromebook

So something basic like changing the battery, or adding new memory/drives ... the YouTube repairers are lying when they say you have to entirely dismantle, unglue, fight Apple's customs interventions and suing of parts suppliers??

[Sorry, I just realised this can only be sarcasm.]

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