Comment by wallace_f | Hacker News Reader

Comment by wallace_f | Hacker News Reader

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Ok I mean, now what you're writing, that's not even wrong. The black part of the image being larger than the actual radius of the blackhole is a discussion about the relative size of the black area you see in the image, to the actual black hole itself. I think that should make sense to you? It's not an argument about why he predicts it will look like a "fuzzy coffee stain," as opposed to other simulated images. Are you able to see the difference between those two ideas?

I think you have some other discussion you were having confused with this one. To remind you about your earlier comment, you stated disagreement with me, saying this video was him only talking about why he predicted the image to look like a "fuzzy coffee stain" as opposed to some other simulated and theorized predicgions. I think the above paragraph and reply should obviously show you why this is actually not true. Are you still with me?

I do think most of the video is interesting, but he never states an argument about why he chose that prediction. That was what I thought was ridiculous. Science is about reason and evidence, not just saying "believe me."

Maybe you watched a different video? You should watch this video, the last 30% talks about simulations done in which the acretion disk reflects around the black hole, he uses example images which look a bit different!

I think what you're hoping for is a more exhaustive survey of what black holes are theorized to look like, with different possibilities. Is that right?

The problem here is your expectation does not match the product. It's like you went to a car dealer and are upset they didn't sell you an airplane.

It isn't surprising to me that Derek focuses on one form, since Veritassium is providing content for the armchair consumer, that he chooses what he believes to be the best model and presents that. This isn't a PhD defense, after all, it's just a timely video so that folks can appreciate the image that the EHT group has released (is going to release, at the time of Veritassium's video.)

Did you have some other models in mind?

Interesting to me is that Veritassium's presented model doesn't explain the corona-like features, nor any attempt at explaining the "blobs" although he does say that blobs would be exiting to see. And there they are! What fun.

Yea sort of. I mean I said I liked the episode, I just think this part is bad form (I'm paraphrasing):

>why can you expect it to look like this? well because it's just going to look like this.

Now, I'm not trying to say his prediction was unwise. I just think it's first of all bad form to say something like "the reason is just trust me," in scientific discussions (even if you are correct)... but second I actually do want to know at least some explanation to that question. Granted, I'm not saying the video does not explain anything about the image. I wanted to know: why can we be sure it will look like this, and not other simulated images?

That's all.

You can see on the EHT's own website a gallery of other simulated models of what could be expected from a radio image.

And the second part of my criticism, was that by the end of the video, he was using images inspired by other models, and particularly of one where the accretion disk dominated the image.

I dont care how many downvotes I get, I know the difference between right and wrong and this is a perfectly reasonable criticism.

Anyways, since my posts lost 60 karma in 1 hour somehow (almost uniformly coming from posts in other threads, wtf?) some other opportunistic types see it as a chance for bullying. Even writing stuff like 'you've obviously got your jimmies rustled mate!' or other extremely bad faith assumptions like 'if you cant understand why it's fuzzy, it's far away!' The best is the troll bait comment, 'do you really think one person is downvoting you?' Groupthink, bullying, and authority define right and wrong for some people--they can't even write something that even addresses an actual comment or argument. People are crazy. Eventually they just start addressing the negativity itself, abandoning any substantive argument, and focusing on the negativity itself. The next step is using the negativity as its own justification (you deserve negativity because otherwise you wouldnt be receiving negativity kind of assumptions implicig in the above troll bait comment).

But still all that I dont think explains why comments in unrelated posts (even ones that were being complimented) got the same time-unform mass-downvotes?? I think I haven't experienced anything like this before on this site until recently. I lost 60 karma in the a few hours.

Well, for the record, it wasn't me. I did however read through your comments just now, and it seems there is a pattern of not really engaging in dialogue but just blasting your opinion over and over. Looking at your comments on Julian Assange, for example, it seems clear that you do not think there is any difference between what a NYTimes reporter does and what Assange did. I can't speak to everyone else but to me the difference is quite obvious, and probably that has something to do with why you're being downvoted. You're repeatedly stating that they're the same, without describing why you believe this, and then kind of insulting other people for their belief that in fact they are different. So anyway, I've spent way, way too much time responding to you. Good luck to you sir.

Hmm there is some groupthink, lack of reason, or bullying going on here.

Look at this image for yourself. The article is titled: "Here is what scientists think a black hole. Looks like:" https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/here-s-what-scientis...

There are not massive differences in the images, but the Vetiasium prediction was (and this is very plain) much more accurate.

This isn't controversial at all.

I also thought the particular statement, "why is it like this, because it is just going to look like this" was bad form.

This is very plainly reasonable.

I think the fact that you and a few other users turned this into an opportunity to go through the effort of writing belittling comments and even put downs and troll bait over something as plain and ordinary as this is indicative of some bad qualities of humanity expressing themselves here.

Of course, your only response will be further negativity as bad people dont possess the ability to admit when they were wrong.

And the statement about Assange is very widely expressed. See here(1). There are articles all over the media, just like that one, echoing the same exact view. They are literally everywhere.

Finally, I noticed over the last 30 minutes all my recent comments went down by -1 each. That really makes it look like I'm engaging with some quite petty and insecure people.

Edit: see, right after I wrote this comment, all my recent comments each, in perfect synchronization, down by -1 again haha.

The reason for the fuzziness should be obvious. It's really far away and it's really hard to see. Expecting a jump from "never seen before" to "seen in amazing visual clarity" is unrealistic.

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