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Comment by idlewords | Hacker News Reader

I'd be curious to hear rank-and-file Googlers' views on how this dynamic is playing out within the company. It's in both journalists' and organizers' interests to play it up, so the reality can be hard to discern.

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Like every issue, there are those who are obsessed with it, for whom it takes over their lives, and then there is a large swath of people who either agree or not, but do so without much intensity.

Since the intensity of most people's beliefs is low and the specific issues are not part of day to day work, it's not really a thing that comes up except when new news breaks and people talk about it at lunch for a day.

When you take a look at how many people, in an industry where it's trivial to get another job, quit over any of these issues, it's in the single digits.

The set may be larger than reported. E.g. I didn’t sign the Maven petition because I was up for promotion and work in Cloud.

I think this is the key question. Is there a "dark matter" of concerned Google employees who would potentially mobilize if pushed too far, or is this just a vocal fringe element in a company with a 100,000 strong work force?

I mean this is kind of my point, you weren't willing to take the small step of signing a petition because you thought it could endanger your promotion. Most people are the same way, they have beliefs, but they don't believe them intensely enough to risk the downsides of doing something about it.

It has come up precisely twice in my immediate working group in the last few years (the Damore thing and the first walkout).

It has affected by work literally not at all.

Some people care deeply about this stuff. I agree with a fair amount of it. But from my perspective calling it a civil war is frankly ludicrous.

I think it affects some groups more than others. A lot of people get mistreated at Google (TVCs, women, people of color, trans people). It’s a lot of high achieving people and a high pressure environment. Inevitably some people will push others without realizing how hard they are pushing. It’s good in my opinion for people to speak out about this.

> A lot of people get mistreated at Google (TVCs, women, people of color, trans people)

It's true that TVCs are not employees, but this different in status does not amount to mistreatment.

The groups you mention are not mistreated at Google. In fact, the company bends over backward to recruit and accommodate them. I challenge you to name one policy that disadvantages women, people of color, or trans people. These persistent claims of mistreatment are in fact cynical attempts to achieve unearned status and special protection from normal rules that govern the company.

I think it would be good for you to speak with TVCs from disadvantaged groups and ask them if they have been subject to mistreatment. I did when I worked there, and a lot of people are subtly and not so subtly mistreated by other employees. A female TVC I know was subject to unwanted sexual comments, and when she complained she was subject to retaliation by her FTE manager. TVC is just a different employment agreement yet many TVCs are treated as lesser than FTEs.

It is absolutely good to speak out. There *are" people at Google who are suffering due to their identity. No question. But these questions have become wrapped up in other activist topics related to government contracts, ai, and more.

I 100% support anybody who has been a victim at work due to their identity and support programs to help these people.

But that isn't a civil war.

It’s not a literal civil war. But as a TVC for two years, I felt like the treatment of TVCs was an important issue that was not fully appreciated by management. It felt kind of like a class war inside the company.

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