As for my own putative ignorance of market demands, one of Sun's growth areas at the time of acquisition in terms of revenue was the group that I had co-founded within Sun[1][2] -- in part because we had listened carefully to the market, and built a product that it very much wanted.
Finally, if we want to engage in the perennial musing as to the demise of Sun, I think for my part I still broadly stand by my analysis from 2011.[3]
[1] http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2008/11/10/fishworks-now-it-can-...
Joyent made money and was acquired, all while producing metric shit tons of incredibly cool Open Source software. We should all be so "monomaniacal".
It's a parody of 1984, with inspirational quotes flowing over the entire building (300meters long). But they are not inspirational, rather artsy sometimes edgy and provocative.
The sentences change every day, and are controlled by an artist in California somewhere.
One of the sentences one day was: "Monomania creates success"
I keep a logbook of the strangest entries.
There are 430 statements. Holzer’s work reflects both a political and with a focus on interpersonal relations and a moral perspective. With her fleeting forms – texts that sweep past – she symbolizes aspects of life itself. Holzer represents a melancholic and committed voice in contemporary art.
* Strange section *
In a paradisiac state the basic survival tasks you need to perform all seems clear and your objective is right there in front of you.
There is a period where you know you have gone wrong but continue
Monomania creates success
* Very dark section *
Scream so powerful that it empties all the kindness you could have shown and blackened the entire fabric of your soul
Form a noise so true that your tormentor recognizes it as a sound that can come from his throat
Murder has its sexual side
You are caught thinking about killing anyone you know
Sometimes you have no other choice but to watch something gruesome occur.
https://www.osnews.com/story/28261/have-you-ever-kissed-a-gi...
https://web.archive.org/web/20110721130404/https://cryptnet....
Admittedly, this was in 1996, and it's possible Cantrill regretted this remark, or the nerd-hating attitude behind it, at some point in the intervening 23 years. But I've never seen him admit it. I see he's participating in this thread, so if you see him not replying to this message, that's him doubling down.
I would also note that the rise of Linux in the late 1990s and early 2000s corresponds with the performance of x86 surpassing the performance of the RISC microprocessors during that same period -- a time when the only other open source Unix was operating under a legal cloud from AT&T. It seems likely that these forces played a greater role than a twentysomething engineer shooting his mouth off on Usenet...
You've been a great example to me and many others, in doing open source, in taking a principled stance (even if I subtly disagree with some of your principles) and also in showing that yes, it's totally possible to found a company with an incomprehensible business model, grow it, have it contribute lots and lots to awesome open source, and somehow despite all the free work and the incomprehensibilities, flip it for a profit. One day I hope to do the same and all of HN will be like "huh?"
I'm surprised you're surprised by this, considering that you have contributed much to the personalization of such matters. The personal "psychologization" of complex social dynamics is pretty much the trademark of many of your talks. If you find psychological explanations attractive, why are you surprised when others do, too?
Later on when I had more say in what systems things ran on, I'd reach for Linux because it was easier. It was good enough. I could easily run it at home too, and it ran on cheap hardware.
I sometimes wonder how much that usability factor played a role...
Though AWS seems to be doing fine as a business, so maybe this theory about usability isn't so great.
It's now faster than GNU/Linux on the same hardware and has been for the past ten years.
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/31ny87/comment/cq3e4y...
I cannot name a single GNU/Linux "hacker" inventing anything. Everything they implemented is a shoddy copy of what the engineers at hp, SGI and Sun Microsystems did. They might have shoddily implemented it by writing the code from scratch, but they blatantly stole everything. For instance, the manual page for chkconfig(8) will even tell one that the command comes from SGI's IRIX.
> I cannot name a single GNU/Linux "hacker" inventing anything. Everything they implemented is a shoddy copy of what the engineers at [...] did.
If we ignore the obvious counter-arguments (GCC, Apache, nginx, arguably git, and so on), and just look at your statement at face value -- you're saying that nobody from the largest free software community in the world has invented anything new in the past 10-15 years. What possible evidence do you have that this is true? It's not just wrong, it's offensively so.
Heck, ZFS-on-Linux is now the repo-of-record for ZFS -- that's a specific example of the GNU/Linux community implementing things alongside the rest of the free software community (and currently ZoL has more features than any other ZFS port).
It's also the case that those brilliant engineers did the same thing. Zones are arguably a re-implementation of Jails with some slightly different design goals. IOCP is objectively just a copy of kqueue (to the point where Cantrill said he wished they'd just ported kqueue). And so on. I don't think this is a bad thing at all, but it's quite strange to put them up on a pedestal to the point where you effectively say that any engineer who didn't work at Sun/HP/SGI in 2003 hasn't invented anything.
There are obviously plenty of examples of Linux not learning from others (Jails/Zones vs containers, kqueue/IOCP vs epoll, DTrace vs eBPF+bpftrace, and so on). But arguing that nothing innovative has come out of the GNU/Linux community ever is just awful.
...and Wikipedia, BitTorrent, the WWW (open-source, though developed on NeXTStep), the Objective-C compiler that made it possible, Emacs (and its idea of an extensible self-documenting editor), Perl, bash, the dpkg/apt system the app stores ape poorly, the CTAN and CPAN systems it derived from, most aspects of decentralized source control in the form of arch (and then later Mercurial and Git), rsync, Docker, Nix, GNU make, Python 3, gold (the linker), iptables, Enlightenment, the Hurd, MySQL, PNG, Pango, Numpy, IPython/Jupyter, Ruby, the X11 Render extension, LADSPA, Valgrind, asan/ubsan, basically everything on CPAN, all the inventions in x264, ...
I'm not sure Apache belongs in there, though. Rob McCool might take exception to being called a "GNU/Linux hacker", though I don't think Robert Thau would mind.
> There are obviously plenty of examples of Linux not learning from others (Jails/Zones vs containers, kqueue/IOCP vs epoll, ...
Oh c'mon, is the problem that Linux doesn't innovate enough or that Linux innovates too much? Epoll is an example of Linux arguably innovating too much.
Personally I think GCC, Apache, and nginx are much better counter-arguments.
- GCC exists because Sun Studio compilers weren't free back then;
- Apache is the next generation NCSA web server;
- nginex is a re-invented Apache wheel.
Do you have any more examples to get corrected on? I'll be glad to set you straight, in the hope that unlike your Linux buddies you are capable of learning.
They are simply amateurs wanting to play engineers, but they never were engineers and never will be, and it shows in just how shitty GNU/Linux based operating systems are. Hacked up together by hackers according to the "hack it 'till it works, man!" motto. And they don't learn from their mistakes or from the mistakes of others, on top of being deeply convicted that they are the best.
Find me one technology invented in GNU/Linux which UNIX did not already invent and I will publicly retract my statement here. Just one.
Now, I already know that you're going to say that "zfs send" already does these things -- but it really doesn't. First of all, ZoL only recently got encryption support so built-in encryption with ZFS only came around recently (and was developed by someone from the GNU/Linux community, by the way). Also, ZFS's dedup is so expensive that it's very strongly recommended that people don't use it unless they really need it. Deduplication with restic and borgbackup is content-based which means that it's far more resilient to shifting bytes in files and it's effectively free because everything is stored as a CAS (to be fair, it's only mostly free because people don't use it as a filesystem).
Again, I really am not bagging on Sun here. I just think it's quite ludicrous that you're saying that any engineer who didn't work at Sun pre-2010 never invented anything. I refuse to believe that you honestly believe that, purely based on how ludicrous of a concept it is.
Borgbackup is a third party, unbundled application. I don't see what it has to do with people hacking on GNU/Linux like mad.
"I just think it's quite ludicrous that you're saying that any engineer who didn't work at Sun pre-2010 never invented anything."
You didn't get it quite right: I'm saying that professional engineers worked at Sun Microsystems, hp and SGI. That's statement #1. Statement #2 is that people working on GNU/Linux are amateurs who didn't invent anything. Statement #3 is that because they are amateurs who are incapable of learning, they just keep hacking shit together haphazardly and will never be engineers like the people from Sun, hp and SGI. Especially SGI: SGI had the best engineers. Those people were way ahead of their time in every technical aspect imaginable.
"I refuse to believe that you honestly believe that, purely based on how ludicrous of a concept it is."
Believe it. GNU/Linux people are amateurs. They don't have it in them. They want to be thought of as engineers but they aren't. They just aren't capable of it. That's why GNU and GNU/Linux are garbage and will never be anything more than a pile of haphazard, shoddily slapped together hacks. That's the world we live in now, where IT is shit thanks to their shitty, shoddy work.
I've seen comments from you about how GNU/Linux is awful in every respect ever since you created your account ~3 years ago. I really can't imagine being so stuck in a mindset that you feel the need to spend so much of your time being angry about such a large community of people. Honestly, I just don't get it and I earnestly hope that this is just an online persona you have.
"I really can't imagine being so stuck in a mindset that you feel the need to spend so much of your time being angry about such a large community of people."
Computers were my life, my passion, my calling. They destroyed all that passion in me with their GNU and their GNU/Linux. I will not forget. I will not forgive. They made my professional life a living hell. I hate working in IT because of those people and their mentality.
"Honestly, I just don't get it and I earnestly hope that this is just an online persona you have."
You must be the change in the world you wish to see.
And I believe that, deeply. I'm absolutely convicted about it. Even if I single handedly must teach apprentices, I will continue to fight until the last drop of blood against GNU and against GNU/Linux and teach people, person by person if I must, as I have been, showing them one on one how awful it is and how superior and easy a real UNIX like SmartOS is. Either until I die or manage to get out of IT. Because truly awful things like GNU and GNU/Linux deserve to be relegated to dark history of IT, and some good and beautiful, well thought out things like SmartOS are worth fighting for. I will continue to fight against ignorance and trend pandering and for enlightment. I will strain like buddha strained if I must. Some things are just worth fighting for and some things one must make a stand against, no matter the cost to oneself. I am forced to work on and with GNU/Linux because people think like you, but I will fight it and resist it every step of the way and I will continue to teach because working on Linux and with GNU/Linux is more work, not less work for me. That alone is more than enough to motivate me.If I am not mistaken, Cantrill stole the line from this skit.
"The good old days." I actually went to a Star Trek convention as a kid back in the late 70's/early 80's, don't remember the year.
It was a different time. "Cool" meant something different back then. People really could say "Get a life!" and it was not an insult. It was truth. There was more to life back then than computers.
(There still is, but today this simple truth is being lost on many more people.)
Sun Microsystems stubbornly refused to lower prices to undercut the generic shitty personal computer used as a server and that cost them the company. hp and IBM made the same mistake at expense of PA-RISC / HP-UX and POWER / AIX respectively. Oracle corporation is in the process of repeating that mistake. They all thought they could get away with outrageous profit margins and pricing. It's like once they started shipping servers to enterprises they all lost compass. Meanwhile, the whole market commoditized. They all wouldn't accept that. Now they've been reduced to rubble. hp "Enterprise" is missing in action somewhere peddling a server here and there, IBM started whoring itself around as a "re-invented" service company (the next "Computer Associates"?) and other than Exadata I don't know of a single business willingly buying Oracle servers. Yeah, it's very hard to predict how that will end. "Very hard".
At any rate, all of that has nothing to do with Bryan. Zero.