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Comment by OpieCunningham | Hacker News Reader

There is, it's available from the DVD FLLC. A Japanese firm where Sony is one of about 10 shareholders.

But beyond perhaps some logo usage rules or guidelines, the existence of the format spec isn't necessarily the word of god, so to speak.

Sony has been implementing intentional errors in their DVDs for many years. On the one hand it likely has increased the annoyance factor in ripping those DVDs and therefore somewhat decreased the prevalence of ripping, but on the other hand you have cases like the OP where the standard use case is also hindered to the level of annoyance.

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"On the one hand it likely has increased the annoyance factor in ripping those DVDs and therefore somewhat decreased the prevalence of ripping"

Hahahaha... oh wait, you were serious. let me laugh harder. hahahahahahahahaha

Seriously though, every single movie released in recent years you can possibly imagine has been ripped and uploaded. What exactly has decreased in prevalence?

You're not really putting much thought into this are you?

Firstly, there's a difference between ripping a DVD and downloading a pirated movie.

More importantly, DVD ripping is far, far from a mainstream activity as evidenced by the tens of millions of DVDs that are still sold every quarter. The reason it is not mainstream, like CD ripping is mainstream, is because of DRM. Anti-DRM measures are not built into operating systems or the most prevalent player applications. The studios regularly mount legal challenges, many of which are successful, against application developers that do build in anti-DRM measures. The result of all of this is that the vast majority of users do not have the tools necessary to rip DVDs. For some portion of those users who become inclined to try it, they can find a tool that does - and then they can encounter Sonys ever evolving intentional error DRM strategy whereby the tool the user has no longer functions and either needs to be updated (assuming the often fly-by-night developer is still around) or replaced. Effectively, the annoyance factor is increased enough to dissuade the casual DVD ripping user from continuing with the activity.

Hence, intentional errors has increased the annoyance factor in ripping DVDs and therefore somewhat decreased the prevalence of ripping.

No, ripping DVDs isn't mainstream because it:

1) takes forever, and a powerful computer (particularly a handful of years ago)

2) takes a lot of space

3) until recently has provided little of the value ripping CDs does (no "mp3 players" for movies)

4) is a nontrivial task for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with DRM (which codec do you use? which container? what size to you transcode it to?, etc)

Intentional errors don't cause even a hiccup in any of the ripping programs I've seen or used, the end user doesn't have to worry about it in the slightest.

Oh, and they press CDs with intentional errors these days too, so your theory really is bogus.

The main difference between ripping DVDs and CDs is that music gets repeated use, whereas the DVD typically doesn't - and hence require a much higher incentive to overcome the DRM annoyance.

1) Nonsense. 2) Nonsense. 3) Which came first, the MP3 or the MP3 player? 4) Nonsense, all software DVD players I've worked with support straight decrypted VOB playback.

New variations on intentional errors regularly disrupt previously released DVD ripping applications. This is a known fact as evidenced by the assortment of results you'll find if you search for "dvd update arccos". It's also why a few of the more popular rippers in the past are no longer popular since they haven't been updated.

Intentional errors on CDs would actually demonstrate my "theory".

And in terms of it being a theory, I have anecdotal evidence that multiple people I know were annoyed at the inability of a ripping program they used/purchased to handle a new release and therefore gave up on ripping. Since my "theory" only required a small decrease in ripping, my theory has been demonstrated to be correct.

It's been a few years since I tried to rip a DVD, but there are plenty of tools in standard linux distros that have a single "click to rip" button.

I don't include Linux in my definition of mainstream.

The majority of such programs are cross-platform.

There are no DVD ripping apps distributed with Windows (or Mac, or any commercial packages distributed from the US due to the DMCA which makes CSS circumvention tools illegal).

I recognize you want to argue this topic, but seriously man.

The legality (or lack thereof in the US) of DeCSS has absolutely nothing to do with publishers making deliberate errors in their pressings.

In fact, it's nothing more than yet another reason why comparing the frequency of DVD ripping to CD ripping and drawing conclusions about the effectiveness of deliberately introducing errors in pressings is flawed.

Furthermore, I said "cross platform", not "ships from the factory with standard installations". If you don't understand the difference between these...

I recognize that you enjoy digging your own grave, but seriously man.

Furthermore, I said "cross platform", not "ships from the factory with standard installations". If you don't understand the difference between these...

For your edification, the conversation went like this:

Me: DVD ripping is not mainstream in part because tools are not mainstream.

Someone: Linux distros have tools

Me: Linux isn't mainstream

You: Cross-platform

Me: No, mainstream

You: Cross-platform!

So with that I'll let you carry on alone.

No, I've been arguing from the beginning against your assertion that 'DVD ripping isn't mainstream because publishers deliberately introduce errors into DVD pressings'.

Furthermore, your definition of "mainstream" excludes software like: firefox, steam, WoW, itunes on windows, photoshop, etc. Give me a freaking break.

My assertion from the beginning has been: intentional errors have somewhat decreased the prevalence of ripping. That is a far cry from your hyperbolic straw man.

Furthermore, Linux not being mainstream is patently obvious. Yet you again need more hyperbolic straw men by claiming some more nonsense about Firefox, WoW, etc.

I've often wondered how bog standard DVD players can ignore these intentional errors and get on with things, whilst ripping software like AnyDVD seems to be in a constant arms race against ever evolving DRM.

Of course the problems start when you have a player that isn't bog standard (like some Sony players), or if you want to do something far out like watch a DVD on a PC (even a Sony PC).

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