Comment by Octoth0rpe | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Octoth0rpe | Hacker News Reader

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> The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were there.

Have you ever spoken to a thinkpad advocate re: chiclet keyboards? The previous mac keyboards were absolutely controversial. It took years for the previous keyboard to be 'just a keyboard', which I do acknowledge happened.

> I look forward to a return to a non controversial, highly usable and widely accepted as "fine", keyboard.

Honestly, this will never happen for two reasons:

1) people's needs are diverse enough where that's simply an impossible job. I happen to _really_ like the current apple keyboards, but the reliability is bad enough for me to want a change. The consensus where I work (100ish mac laptops) is that the keyboard is awful. Someone is going to be unhappy, and it sounds like it might be me :(

2) There's some segment of the technology world (non-unix people?) that will latch onto any criticism of apple - fair/deserved or not - and shout it endlessly.

> The previous mac keyboards were absolutely controversial. It took years for the previous keyboard to be 'just a keyboard', which I do acknowledge happened.

I would dispute that people stopped caring about the keyboard shortcomings. They're ergonomically bad keyboards, just not bad enough to keep complaining for this many years. If all Apple cares about is what people are currently chattering about, they're missing an opportunity to improve the product, because I still regard the MacBook keyboards as a reason to buy something else. When I think of the painful adjustment that I'll have to make if I ditch Apple laptops in favor of something else, there's a voice in my head saying, "Remember when a laptop keyboard could feel good to type on?" Banging my fingertips into a hard surface all day never became "just a keyboard."

> I would dispute that people stopped caring about the keyboard shortcomings.

Let me guess, you have a guy feeling about this stuff?

Can you please clarify, what is a guy feeling?

Most of the technology works just hates any sort of change. Apple’s core base is different, they embrace change regardless of its utility. So that makes it hard to evaluate this kind of tech online.

I’m also noticing that the article suggests that apple’s real reason for change is poor yield and reliability. Those are objective measures, so I think we can agree that the current keyboard is bad.

> Apple’s core base is different, they embrace change regardless of its utility.

I really don't know how one can come to this conclusion. Apple people bitch about _everything_ that changes. I think the one and only exception might be any time that they added retina screens to something.

Source: I am an apple user.

Yes, and no.

There's bitching but Apple's audience is always the first to absorb the change that eventually hits the whole industry.

MacOS Classic to Mac OS X? They kept Classic Mode around for 5 years for a reason. Eventually the benefits outweighed the drawbacks.

Loss of floppy drives and serial ports in the iMac? Bitching galore, but it was the right move.

Loss of built in DVD/CD drive on the Macbook Pro (circa 2012 with the retina MBP)? Bitching, but when's the last time we needed it so often?

Lots of bitching about iPhone 6 screen sizes being too big, leading to the iPhone SE. But ultimately more people liked the bigger size.

Lots of bitching about USB-C vs. Magsafe, but ultimately USB-C is proving to be the correct move.

The touchbar feels like the main misstep. I think most of the bitching would go away if they brought back haptics on the ESC key.

The mac chiclet keyboards weren't the best or the worst but these recent keyboards are awful.

Well, IMO it depends on what you get used to. After typing for one day on my mechanical keyboard, even the Thinkpad feels like typing on cardboard. Conversely, using the mechanical keyboard, after spending a few days on my laptop, feels like an old typewriter. I can say that I enjoyed my 2016 Macbook keyboard after getting used to it and I was even faster than on the old macbook. Also, another example, the 2014 model had shorter travel and crisper feeling than the 2011 model. I guess, after a while you get used to something and it feels ok. Until it breaks that is.

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