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Comment by jpswade | Hacker News Reader

Why does Perl warrant its own network?

Why not join freenode instead?

There already is a well-populated #perl channel on Freenode. Unfortunately it's a socially unwell place that in a way has been taken hostage by a small tight-knit group of regulars - users like MST, Grinnz and pinkmist, to name a few - who go about managing and policing the channel in not only unfriendly ways but also in very unwelcoming ways in relation to new and casual visitors.

(ps. I'm a regular of the channel since the late 2000s, and can confidently state that its environment is today unhealthy and degraded)

i am not sure it's appropriate to name names here. it doesn't really help the discussion. (is there a way to alert moderators (dang)) to have the names edited out, or is downvoting the only option?

These are anonymous IRC aliases, not real names. What I've mentioned isn't a secret or in any way outing or revealing; keep in mind that #perl on Freenode is a public channel, and anyone who's frequented the channel for more than a few weeks are familiar with what I described. If anything in this is sensitive it's the way newbies and "casuals" are treated there, and that it's allowed to go on without intervention from other Freenode staff.

they are identities, and it's not clear at all if they are anonymous or not. either way, the names don't really add to the story, so why take the risk?

It seems to me you're exactly the type of person that sungo was talking about -- someone who wants to complain but not actually do anything to help.

You haven't said anything constructive at all. What are people doing that you find unfriendly and unwelcoming? What would you suggest they do differently? If you were one of the regulars, what would you do differently?

I am one of the regulars, since a decade now. For starters I would under no circumstance allow myself to habitually include an insult when responding to people who ask "stupid questions" out of just not knowing Perl better. I would also refrain from kicking and even banning people from the channel based on nothing else than personal differences in opinion on whatever the fleeting off-topic happens to be - a transgression I've seen played out god knows how many times over the years - and instead save that measure solely for when someone is actually breaking a network or channel rule.

I can't speak for my fellow operators but I resent the accusation (since you did name me) that I took part in any such behavior.

As a counterpoint, I'll extend an invitation for anyone to come see for themselves how "unfriendly" the channel is, keeping in mind that it's a two way street and nobody is being paid to put up with you.

It's certainly a two-way street. I think anyone would agree that trolls deserve anything but dilly-dallying, but trolls don't belong to the newbies and casuals I'm concerned with. You putting the term unfriendly in quotes, and implying that you are subjected to having to "put up" with people, just reinforces my opinion that the problems I've described are indeed normalized.

It is in quotes because I haven't seen unwarranted unfriendly behavior in months. I am not subjected to put up with people, I do it by choice.

while elsewhere i asked the same question, this is of course the downside of a large network. on a large network such issues disappear in the noise, and people would have to make a very very good case to have the channel owners dethroned. on a small network such issues can be dealt with easier (although given the reason for leaving, and other comments about irc.perl.org it appears that that place was no better)

though there is still the option of creating a new channel with a different name, and inviting people over...

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