Comment by dotBen | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dotBen | Hacker News Reader

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I've been married and divorced and I'm still in my late twenties. Not sure I can help you with any maxims on maintaining a healthy marriage but on the startup front I would suggest you strongly consider a pre-nup - or if the wedding is this evening, a post-nup.

I sincerely hope you never end up in a divorce situation but during mine (under California law) I had to give up 50% of my equity and options rights in the startups I've been involved in that occurred during the marriage because they were 'community property' (ie owned by the couple).

I'm not a lawyer, but if you have your own startup and your wife isn't a shareholder and you divorce she is entitled to 50% of anything you vested during that time. It works both ways if she is also involved in startups (ie you would get 50% of hers) and to that end you could agree to trade/cancel things out. I was able to buy my ex-wife out because I didn't want her to remain involved in the company but it was very costly. There's a longer and more gory story in here but this isn't really the place to get into it plus confidentially issues come into play.

When you get married, you don't really want to think about divorce. In the same way when you form the company documents for your startup, you don't really think about an IPO or an exit - yet in both cases at that end point some of the decisions you made at the start will come into play and so it's important to get things in order now.

EDIT: Another tid-bit of info - if you exercise options or sell the company your spouse has to sign-off agreement on the documents. Again, if you end up estranged from your wife that can cause all kinds of delays and issues.

I couldn't disagree more strongly with this sentiment. Marriage is built on trust, and with a pre-nup agreement, you're starting out with the premise BEFORE YOU'VE EVEN MARRIED... that 'this is how we divorce'. BAD IDEA.

If you don't trust someone enough, don't get married. Period. End of story.

One thing that stuck out with me was Donald Trump's books. He wrote two or three of them in the 1980's/1990's, and in each dedicated an entire chapter to prenups, why to have one, and why he had one. He went through two divorces and only ended up paying a few million dollars (pre-agreed upon), rather than half which would have been close to a billion. Agreeing how to end a relationship is much easier to do while you're still friends rather than enemies. Hopefully it never happens, but situations and incentives change, and having a prenup is an excellent hedge against the unpredictability of the future.

"If you don't trust someone enough, don't get married. Period. End of story."

This is bad advice. It's similar to saying: if you need to have a contract with your business partners, why get into business together in the first place?

It's not even about trust with me. I just don't want my future spouse getting half of everything I've worked for..before I met them. Simple as that.

A buddy of mine had no pre-nup. He worked for 25 years for the US postal service. After 10 years of marriage, he caught his wife cheating on him (and she wanted a divorce). The result? She gets half of his retirement and the house.

A better pre-nup is to give your spouse a time at which they will get a portion of your stuff. So at around 50 years of marriage, they get half. If they reject it, you can say: "so you don't think we will be married that long"?

In some states, it's even worse. In New York, you might have to pay not based on how much money you are making, but how much you will potentially earn.

If the US courts weren't so biased against men, I wouldn't even consider getting a pre-nup.

Half of marriages end with divorce. You can either refuse to get married to anyone you can't predict perfectly for, say, sixty years, or plan sensibly while you're on amicable terms. If you can't plan a divorce when the two of you like each other, it'll be an absolute nightmare to do it when you're separating.

There's an idea in Aikido I like, which is that one should always consider the end of the relationship just as much as the beginning. The example I learned is rather bloody [1], but it also applies to telephone conversations, outings with friends, starting a company, and I imagine, a marriage.

Given that all things in life are transient, you should think of their path over time instead of as static elements. A marriage may only be a good experience for 40 years; it may be a good fit to end it after that time.

[1] When making a knife thrust to the chest, one arcs the blade inside the body. This prevents suction from trapping the knife.

You write:

"If you don't trust someone enough, don't get married. Period. End of story."

With divorce at 45% of all marriages, clearly there are a lot of people who trust one another who perhaps should not. Your rule may have a kind of wisdom to it, but, in the first place, people ignore it and, in the second place, lots of people start off trusting each other and then, 5 years later, hate each other. A relationship is a learning experience, and it might be wise to start one with some buffer against the negative things you might learn.

Also, your rule can be turned on its head: if 2 people really trust each other, then they should have no problem agreeing on how to end their relationship, should unforeseen circumstances arise in the future that necessitate that ending.

Yea, and what's the deal with people wearing seatbelts?

It's like HELLO...just don't crash your car!

If you think your car might crash, you shouldn't drive it!

Seriously though...there is a small kernel of truth in what you are saying: quite often people jump into marriage sooner than they should.

A prenup has NOTHING to do with this though, it's just basic common sense.

Nobody knows what the future will bring, and I would say you've got it completely backwards.

If the person you're with doesn't trust/love/etc you enough to sign a (reasonable) prenup, it's because they're worried you might have to use it.....and then you should reconsider.

I don't disagree with the first part of what you are saying. The problem is that marriage is a multi-faceted agreement - a personal one, a legal one and even a spiritual one if you are so inclined.

Your point is valid at the personal level but that doesn't negate the fact there is a legal binding contractual agreement occurring here too. Most contracts have exit clauses and there is no reason why marriage shouldn't - especially if you are entrepreneurial and the stakes can be high upon the termination of that agreement.

I do wonder, though, what you mean by "If you don't trust someone enough, don't get married. Period. End of story.", specially trust? Trust them to do what - not divorce you or not to fleece you in the event of a divorce?

If it is the former, nothing is certain and marriages can fail completely through the consequences of the other half. If the latter, well why would you hold a contract that says the other party has termination rights of x, y and z but trust them not to exercise those rights?.

But we all know that world is not just black and white.

Marriages nowadays always start with good intentions, love and trust. Why would they marry in the first place, otherwise?

Sometimes though things turn bitter. A lot. That's why divorce exists. Would you like then to spend all the rest of your life to share all your income with someone that maybe you end hating? Especially when after divorce you find someone who finally is the right one and you want to build a family?

That's why pre-nups exist. They are not lack of trust in the first place. They are a way to be safe just in case something will happen, despite totally hoping for the contrary. It's looking at marriage pragmatically, since all the other decisions were probably already made on an emotional basis.

Have you been married before? Just wondering -- not trying to be sarcastic or anything.

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